Before locking up threads ...

[Icemage]

Re: Before locking up threads ...

Since when did people start teaching them to read?

Awareness of this fact is usually associated with post-Neolithic man.

On a tangent, grenades are big, flashy, and cause lots of damage, but you do have to be careful how far you throw them or they blow up in your face.


Icemage

[Siber]

Re: Before locking up threads ...

On a tangent, grenades are big, flashy, and cause lots of damage, but you do have to be careful how far you throw them or they blow up in your face.


Icemage

I am well aware of this fact.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Before locking up threads ...

That comment was not a personal flame to anyone but yours was.

Telling someone to button it, whilst being abrupt and bad-mannered, isn't a flame. Had I called him an idiot then you'd be on to something. Important to learn the difference if you intend to moderate successfully. I believe I've only ever flamed one person on these boards to date and was more than ready to take a warning for it had the situation arisen.

Anyway, apologies for the misunderstanding Icemage, I can see from your following post what you were trying to say I was just a little too hasty in my interpretation.

[Khidir]

Re: Before locking up threads ...

Quote, like the jihad thread.
Just because there was that word it doesn't offend none.
Jihad means "holy war in the name of God" nothing else.
Is like if you say to me "Apocalypse" or something like that (since i am christian).
There is nothing offensive and we weren't blaming anyone...

There was a Jihad thread? ftw doesn't matter where you go you have to put up with some bs huh?

[Taskmage]

Re: Before locking up threads ...

Since Kildem's quote seems to be off the mark, would one of the Muslim posters care to give a correct definition of "Jihad?"

[Khidir]

Re: Before locking up threads ...

When an Imam feel that there is a threat to the Mulsim faith he calls for Jihad "Holy War" for protecting Islam. It can only be administered by the Imam or Khalifah. The extremists try to use this as a front and excuse to "purify" the world of other religions.

Not the exact verbatum but the nutshell pai pai can tell you better, he is a better muslim than me.

Remember the crusades? A Jihad was going on then

[sdillon]

Re: Before locking up threads ...

Since Kildem's quote seems to be off the mark, would one of the Muslim posters care to give a correct definition of "Jihad?"

Hmmm... I'm not sure if this is on topic... but I'll post it here and maybe if mods want we can move it to another thread discussing Jihad definitions lol...

I was 11 or 12 when I heard this quote from the Ustaz at our school where I grew up in (we had Quran and Islamic classes 3 times per week for Muslim students in all stages of schools): Jihad is in our hearts everyday. Jihad is not just to raise swords or weapons to an enemy. Jihad is to protect that which is good, including yourself. Jihad is also the inner battle of a Muslim and his personal demons. (this next bit here.... is really hard to translate but I will do my best) Jihad is the fight to truly do as you intent and know your hearts intent (please look up the Malay word 'niat' which I am translating as intent as there is no English equivalent to its context) for Allah sees only your intent, that part of you that only he can see. That is your Jihad.

In any religion anyone can raise arms in the name of their god/beliefs, so in a way, Jihad is a term used to describe a concept that is present in every human being/culture. I'm sure other religions have a term for this as well.

[Caspian]

Re: Before locking up threads ...

I'm sure other religions have a term for this as well.

Your heart? Your true inner desires and such?

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Before locking up threads ...

The definition pertaining to "holy war" does not mean a violent nor public war. "The essential meaning of jihad is the spiritual, psychological and physical effort exerted by Muslims to be closer to God and thus achieve a just and harmonious society." For the most part it means an internal struggle to better themselves and their fellow believers. It wasn't until modern day that extremists warped the meaning of Jihad into some perverted violent act.

[Khidir]

Re: Before locking up threads ...

The definition pertaining to "holy war" does not mean a violent nor public war. "The essential meaning of jihad is the spiritual, psychological and physical effort exerted by Muslims to be closer to God and thus achieve a just and harmonious society." For the most part it means an internal struggle to better themselves and their fellow believers. It wasn't until modern day that extremists warped the meaning of Jihad into some perverted violent act.

Thats what i meant thanks Mom

[Caspian]

Re: Before locking up threads ...

All religions have it. Especially with things like the Bible and the Quran and other scriptural writings, where a little interpretation is allowed. So people make big interpretations and start doing things really out of whack.

[Khidir]

Re: Before locking up threads ...

Just understand some people do it accidentaly others abuse it, its only hard to tell a difference if you do not understand the religion or are morallly low.

Fame spires envy, envy engenders hate, and hate causes destruction.(semi paraphrased from The Half-Blood Prince XD

[Caspian]

Re: Before locking up threads ...

Yeah, its like someone pointed out earlier. All religions have it, Christianity is claimed by the KKK and people who bomb abortion clinics.

[Taskmage]

Re: Before locking up threads ...

I got this response by IM, which I found enlightening:

(22:45:34) Muslim Friend: yeah, pretty much
(22:47:15) Muslim Friend: to most people it has no violent connotation whatsoever, but is used by most fundamentalists or warmongers as a way to give religious support to an act
---------------------------------------
(14:31:20) Muslim Friend: but you don't say "i declare a jihad on..." like that, it's completely incorrect
(14:31:43) Muslim Friend: many people could be offended if someone went around saying "i declare a jihad on sandwiches" or "i declare a jihad on martha stewart"
(14:32:19) Muslim Friend: for one, it's politically incorrect, and two, it's disregarding the true meaning of the word and aligning it with terrorists as if they're using it in the correct sense
--------------------------------------

The problem with the above is that yes, it does mean to put forth your best effort in everything you do, but it does also mean to have a "holy war," so to speak. In the past, it did not mean that, but times have changed, and with the times, the meaning of words adjust as well. So in my opinion, it means both.

An excellent point made here. Words are defined by use and, though perhaps through ignorance, the "popular" definition of Jihad has become a violent action taken against another under the banner of righteousness.

I had been given to understand that the word Jihad didn't necessarily refer to aggressive action, or even any outward action at all, but wasn't really aware of the term outside its "popular" caricaturized meaning. Really, I might have been as likely as anyone to misuse the term and offend someone. Having gained some understanding about the original meaning of the word, I'll remember not to use it in a way that advances its other definition. Hopefully if others learn they'll follow suit.

Thank you for your replies. /bow

[Icemage]

Re: Before locking up threads ...

Many religious faiths have analogous, though not equivalent, concepts to that of jihad, though not all.

Most forms of Christianity, for instance, pushes various forms of proselytization (spreading the faith), which has often been interpreted historically as violent conversion - crossreference the Crusades, as well as expansionism and missionary work to educate "heathens" in the New World.

Modern Judaism, while mostly bereft of those concepts, has its own brand of this in Zionism, which holds that the Chosen People (Jews) have a divine inheritance of the Holy Land; this interpretation is what led directly to the creation of the nation of Israel.

Most Eastern religions have few ties such concepts. Buddhism is a curiosity, as it many respects it resembles philosophy more than religion; much of it is centered around self-development and escaping the wheel of reincarnation. There are interpretations of this concept which can embody violence, but such warping of the basic tenets of the religion is unusual and generally tied to very small sectarian movements, but they, too, have made their presence felt from time to time.

In its pure form, as I understand it, the concept of jihad is simply a moral imperative for Muslims to act when they feel wrong is being done - an injunction against passivity in the face of evil. Part of the issue that many Westerners do not fully comprehend nor agree with is that there is no explicit restriction against using violent means to satisfy jihad.

In other cultures, there is at least a certain amount of inertia against violence, but it's an unfortunate fact that significant parts of the Muslim world have allowed and accepted the usage of violence to promote jihad. They do not represent the majority by any stretch of the imagination, but they do represent a tangible minority, and it is the dichotomy between the views of this minority and the commonly held beliefs of the rest of the world which has caused so much friction when the term is used.


Icemage