Just out of pure curiosity for you long-time players. [Regarding nerfs]

[Jonnyram]

Originally posted by Deedlit
Right. Sounds to me like you guys had it much easier back then than we did when we started.

Oh come on. Anti NA-sentiment is one thing, but to respond with anti-importer stuff is just asking for flames.

Extra things have been constantly added to the game, and as you can see, not a huge amount of nerfs have taken place. I guess THF, BRD and BST are the biggest, because the jobs were overpowered compared to everything else, while other jobs have just been souped up constantly.

How was the game easier?
- without exp chains
- without magic burst
- without MGS
- without reraise
- without regen
- without refresh
- without convert
- without smn/sam/drg/nin
- without pimp equipment
- with broken bar-spells
- with less bards & rangers than there are now (and that's saying a lot!)

...and I'm just talking from a mage's point of view. Lots of stuff was added for melees too.

Above all else, the main reason it's easier now is because there are literally hundreds of sites out there with comprehensive information about how and where to level up, what skillchains to use, what weaknesses enemies have and how to obtain cool equipment. 2 years ago, people didn't even eat food like they do today. You've got 2 year old economies to thank for a lot of things nowadays.

P.S. This is not a pissing contest. The game has changed for the better, you don't really think Square-Enix would try to make the game harder, do you?

[Deedlit]

Think about what you just said - making the game harder. Well, that's what the point of this topic is, no? Nerfs? People are here reminiscing saying how they miss this and that, and I'm saying, wow, wish we had that sort of stuff these days.

[quoteDon't forget we didn't have people playing the game for the past 2 years to tell everyone about every possible thing in the game.[/quote]

{I'm sorry} {I don't speak Japanese.} Cause if I did, maybe I would have all of this wonderful info, as there are many jp sites out there with this info. Seriously, almost every bit of info I needed for this game - like, actively sought out - I ended up figuring out myself through trial and error. It's not like the quests and missions are that difficult to decipher, and camping spots - I avoid the ones people use, cause they are too crowded. I visit these forums to hear useful info about SMN, and there usually isn't any with the exception to the FAQ - that gives no help whatsoever with AF battles, which is what I needed to know.

Honestly, haven't you guys noticed that half the info out there for anything worthwhile is usually wrong? My poor RNG friend can't even FIND a place to research all of his AF. This place is loaded with non-working links, and KI is jp with babelfish. Meh.

Oh and Cedric, that was directed towards Celeras, which is nothing new.

[Jonnyram]

Originally posted by Deedlit
Think about what you just said - making the game harder. Well, that's what the point of this topic is, no? Nerfs? People are here reminiscing saying how they miss this and that, and I'm saying, wow, wish we had that sort of stuff these days.

I see your side of the argument, but the general intention of nerfs is to balance the strengths of jobs so that everyone doesn't start levelling the same job. The popularity of THF during the yokodama age was insane. When people found out about subbing BST for BCs, that too became immensely popular. Nerfs just put things back in balance.

{I'm sorry} {I don't speak Japanese.} Cause if I did, maybe I would have all of this wonderful info, as there are many jp sites out there with this info.

I'm not saying you use sites for your info particularly, but most people do, and there are plenty of english sites about FFXI now. Besides, even the Japanese sites aren't that hard to figure out - look at all the non-Japanese speaking importers who have been using Japanese sites for info.

Honestly, haven't you guys noticed that half the info out there for anything worthwhile is usually wrong?

No, not really. Or are you referring to this site specifically? Let us know where there information is incorrect and we'll try to do something about it.

My poor RNG friend can't even FIND a place to research all of his AF.

Have him/her check here. The RNG board here should be able to help too..

[Aldo]

i can't read japanese and i still use japanese sites for all my information.

[Celeras]

Originally posted by Deedlit
Oh and Cedric, that was directed towards Celeras, which is nothing new.

Hmm ok, SMN53/WHM38 you say? 3/6 Avatars huh? Its not hard to figure out how you got those avatars now is it. Or maybe you gimped your way through 50 levels or SMN, then mooched your way through it then? Mmm?

/sh {Help me out!} {Summon Magic} {Fight} LV38 WHITEMAGE {Help me out!}

Easier for us eh? You go try doing an AF1 with a level cap of 50 ([edit] Uhh, wrong bout this part, what am I thinking of?), try doing an avatar fight without 6x lv75's (cap was 65?) on your side, when the -bar spells sucked.

Just the fact that we earned everything we did is something you can never say. Prototypcial NA player, you have no right to say ANYTHING in this thread, let along claims about a game 2 years ago that you never even played.

What a shocker that another NA can turn a perfectly innocent thread, into this.:sweat:

[Jonnyram]

Celeras, AF didn't exist before lv60 cap / Zilart, so I don't know what you are talking about

[Celeras]

Eh? Maybe I'm remembering something else then, 2 years is a long time ago for such recollection.

Bottom Line to Deedlit:

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[Deedlit]

Hahaha, I can just laugh at that Celeras, it shows up on my screen as a bunch of squares =P I'll refrain from commenting in german/italian/spanish though, cause I'm above that sort of thing.

Second, you're absolutely right about me getting all of my avatars at level 33 - I would never presume to ask for them though, though a very nice IMPORTER actually OFFERED on another forums to let me accompany her for heals, as she wanted to try soloing them, but didn't want to waste her gil on potions. So, I guess you could say I was main healer on duoed avatar fights. Not to mention I had to meet her at the protocrystals. Yep, absolutely right, I didn't earn anything As for earning things - try beating the shadowlord with all level 53s and one 55. Pfft, I'm sure you'll say the 53s were leeches.

Anyway Johnny, thanks for the info, I'll email him that link. As for me, the only site I've found out there with info that isn't poorly translated jp is allakhazam's site, where people donate info - much of the higher level stuff is wrong, and will be till someone changes it. This site - it CAN be good, the stuff I wanted wasn't available - like I couldn't find a strat for SMN AF2 fight - I post a thread, and no one comments on it, so I have to eck it out myself.

[Celeras]

Originally posted by Deedlit
Hahaha, I can just laugh at that Celeras, it shows up on my screen as a bunch of squares =P I'll refrain from commenting in german/italian/spanish though, cause I'm above that sort of thing.

Second, you're absolutely right about me getting all of my avatars at level 33 - I would never presume to ask for them though, though a very nice IMPORTER actually OFFERED on another forums to let me accompany her for heals, as she wanted to try soloing them, but didn't want to waste her gil on potions. So, I guess you could say I was main healer on duoed avatar fights. Not to mention I had to meet her at the protocrystals. Yep, absolutely right, I didn't earn anything As for earning things - try beating the shadowlord with all level 53s and one 55. Pfft, I'm sure you'll say the 53s were leeches.

Anyway Johnny, thanks for the info, I'll email him that link. As for me, the only site I've found out there with info that isn't poorly translated jp is allakhazam's site, where people donate info - much of the higher level stuff is wrong, and will be till someone changes it. This site - it CAN be good, the stuff I wanted wasn't available - like I couldn't find a strat for SMN AF2 fight - I post a thread, and no one comments on it, so I have to eck it out myself.

-I speak Italian, and Spanish.. so go for it.
- Shadowlord is built for lv 55's.. thats when I beat him, thats when everybody beats him. No 53 isnt a leech
- No, you didnt earn the avatars... a level 1 could sneak his way to the protocrystals with powders/oils. Your not special just because you threw a heal to a high level doing all the work. You still mooched.

Smn AF2 is a pretty easy BC fight.. same as all other BC's really. You could probably do it with a skilled party of 55, i'd recommend 60 though.

[daigoro]

If memory serves me....

AF for the 6 starting jobs was released in Nov. '02 when cap went from 55->60.

About mid Dec of '02 AF for the remaining (pre-expansion) jobs was released.

Ziraat and 60->65 cap was about mid April '03 but the AF for the new jobs didnt come until the 65->70 cap release in July '03.

-daigoro

[Jonnyram]

Originally posted by Celeras
Eh? Maybe I'm remembering something else then, 2 years is a long time ago for such recollection.

Maybe you were thinking of Paladin job quest. That wasn't so easy, especially without MGS spells.

[peacemaker]

Originally posted by Deedlit


Right. Sounds to me like you guys had it much easier back then than we did when we started.

The one thing we DID have easier was we could take for granted that over 95% of level up parties were productive. Now I wish we had a macro to keep refusing no-tell invites to join "level-down" parties.

[Evoada]

when i did my last PLD quest (the one in davoi), indeed there was no sneak invisi ect..

well we got aggroed by a dragoon or a farkiller..and the nice lvl 50 RDM who aggreed to help me got his head torn to pieces..

i did it again helping a friend with sneak invisi and it was a cake walk..

BST quest in qufim was fun too when kraken poped in front of the flower..

[Kite322]

Browsed through, didn't see anyone post this but you used to have to go to your countries buidling in RuLude Gardens to get signet, as there weren't guards around town. Also, you could walk to another countries building and buy their signet items for 2x points if you wanted to.

I recall one time right after a patch when everyone logged in, for some reason the doors on those buildings would not open so nobody could get signet in the Jeuno area for a couple hours -_-;;

[Deodorant]

Originally posted by Celeras
Hmm ok, SMN53/WHM38 you say? 3/6 Avatars huh? Its not hard to figure out how you got those avatars now is it. Or maybe you gimped your way through 50 levels or SMN, then mooched your way through it then? Mmm?

I will say this: Big fucking deal. She didn't "earn" her summons the way you did, and guess what? Nobody fucking cares! Except you, who seem hellbent for whatever reason on bringing this up again and again and again in any thread that she posts in.

I fought all my summons with a lvl 60+ job, so I can say I 'earned' them, but I don't see the need to purposely go "omg you leeched summons you are teh sux" to anyone who got them 'with help' each and every opportunity I get. Especially in a thread that has nothing to do with it.

[edit] For the life of me I also don't understand why some of you old-timers are getting so defensive. I mean seriously, one person makes a semi-justified observation, and that sparks off a whole outburst of anti-NA, "omg you NAs are inferior noobs who don't know anything about how we had to shave our balls to get our AF, now bow down and worship at our feet!"

This thread could have easily stayed innocent and pleasant, but certain people decided to be jackasses about certain things ...