Gil-for-money farming getting out of hand

[Voila!]

Check out the profit, he's just spinning the globe of economy and coming out on top. Fortune 500 companies have, and will continue to make money, and spend it, and rise, and repeat.

Compared to all the people who don't participate in the virtual trade, it wont have much effect at all. If something is creating such a large impact on our economy, a lot more people would know about it.

[Epincus]

Heh speaking of Government this is a Bill that was currently brought to my attention anyone currently 18 to 26 or in the military might want to look at. It's about bringing back drafting. Just do a search for HR 163.

That bill was brought up a little over a year ago. If memory serves not only did it not pass, it didn't even come close. The main effort was by Congressman Rangal to emphasize that people wouldn't be so rash to charging into another country if it was possible their necks would be on the line.

[AlthornCS]

The draft thing is currently listed at Snopes. The e-mail circulating right now claiming that the President is secretly planning on reinstating the draft is a hoax by someone. I also read elsewhere that every last individual who sponsered the bill is a Democratic member of Congress, and an avowed opponent of President Bush. Those aren't the kind of people you're likely to find in a secret conspiracy coming from the President's office.

For the curious, here's the Snopes link:

Snopes on the Draft Plot


And take the time to kill this rumor whenever you see it. While I'm not one to complain about mudslinging from either side, I do get annoyed when the mudslinging doesn't have as much as a sliver of truth to it.

[Scatman]

Originally posted by Macht
Give me a break anything that can net a person that much in earnings will indeed make an impact in the economy. That was just a single guy selling gil on their own get 500 + doing that and you have profit of a small business going somewhere. Get 1% of all the players doing that and you have close to a medium size business' profits. Get 10% doing that and you have a huge business' profits going somewere. I mean 2.3 billion in a year and that would have no effect?

Demand doesn't just appear with supply. The price of virtual goods is related to the ease of attaining them, so the more sellers you see, the lower their value will be. If you go take a look at the Diablo 2 economy for instance, everyone and their moms are selling items, and that results in the price collapse of said items, until they're only worth a few dollars each. Basically, the capacity (ie demand) for virtual goods trading is quite low in comparison to other markets, therefore it never really will make a noticeable impact on the real world economy. In other words, if the virtual goods market is represented by a pie, all the sellers involved have to share that pie. If there's one seller, he keeps the whole pie for himself. If there are two sellers, a second pie won't miraculously appear...both sellers will end up sharing that same pie, and profits will be cut. So taking your example, it'll just be that same pie cut 500 ways, rather than another 499 separate pies appearing out of no where.

[Bleak]

omg i so hate these gil farmers......
1) you cant claim a mob faster then them because they have some kinda voke bot i was in davoi waiting for nm and there they were the #@%@$^ gil farmers i was like stfu ima get the nm (i didnt rly say that to them) but before an orc pops they voke it somehow i was like OO.
2) my revenge i noticed they voke every mob thats close to them so i made a train and took it to them o.oy and sure enough they voked every mob that i had man this was so funny i killed one then i loged out and went to bed
3) next day i log on and their still there OMGWTFBBQ! theres guys have no life and makes you want to quit the game these fags are all over the place you cant camp a nm with them 24/7 it.

[bah]

Someone may have mentioned this already as I haven't read the thread too thoroughly, but many of the gil farmers that i have seen are using characters that people have sold. This is how they could fairly easily break the "wall" that is the limit quests. Right now there is a lvl 65 pt of them perma camping amemet in my server. Guivre ate them a few times I heard but anyway, like i said, it wouldnt be impossible for a company like ige too give their farmers high lvl accounts they bought and start going for the higher level NMs or possibly HNMs.

It is a problem, but I think it is one that will more than likely go unsolved. Gil farmers are paying SE the money, so unless they can find a way to track the gil that they sell, I doubt that they will do much of anything. Sad but true.

[csBahamut]

Hahahaha...Npcone and Sakurajan on Phoenix(everyone on Phoenix knows who they are) were in Crawler's Nest today trying to level back up to 50. Seems Npcone was back down to level 48. But what made it *REALLY* funny was thow they both kept dying! No one bothered to help them. They got a few raises...but they were definitely losing more exp than they were gaining.

[Alucath]

Originally posted by Scatman
Demand doesn't just appear with supply. The price of virtual goods is related to the ease of attaining them, so the more sellers you see, the lower their value will be. If you go take a look at the Diablo 2 economy for instance, everyone and their moms are selling items, and that results in the price collapse of said items, until they're only worth a few dollars each. Basically, the capacity (ie demand) for virtual goods trading is quite low in comparison to other markets, therefore it never really will make a noticeable impact on the real world economy. In other words, if the virtual goods market is represented by a pie, all the sellers involved have to share that pie. If there's one seller, he keeps the whole pie for himself. If there are two sellers, a second pie won't miraculously appear...both sellers will end up sharing that same pie, and profits will be cut. So taking your example, it'll just be that same pie cut 500 ways, rather than another 499 separate pies appearing out of no where.

The thing is, supply and deman laws only take affect when the suppliers lower their prices in order to sell things faster and more competitively with other players. Undercutting is the very founding of supply and demand. Gil sellers take complete control of a certain item, and flood the AH with items higher priced than the price history.. And keep incrementing. Thus why people are saying the prices are going up.

The more gil sellers, the more you can raise the price on a certain item, the more money gil sellers make.

[Scatman]

Originally posted by Alucath
The thing is, supply and deman laws only take affect when the suppliers lower their prices in order to sell things faster and more competitively with other players. Undercutting is the very founding of supply and demand. Gil sellers take complete control of a certain item, and flood the AH with items higher priced than the price history.. And keep incrementing. Thus why people are saying the prices are going up.

The more gil sellers, the more you can raise the price on a certain item, the more money gil sellers make.

Basically what you're getting at, are the laws of monopoly or the practice of collusion. Neither really will work in FFXI, since there are no boundaries like in RL, such as copyright laws, resources based on geography, or heavy capital-requirements (ie hydro companies, phone companies, etc). If any group has temporary control over an item, as long as they keep driving up the prices, it's only a matter of time before the high prices catch the interest of other players who move in to compete, and the prices will inevitably fall again. That's why many companies intentionally reduce their profits if they know their industry can support additional competition.

[Braanu]

"Basically what you're getting at, are the laws of monopoly or the practice of collusion. Neither really will work in FFXI, since there are no boundaries like in RL, such as copyright laws, resources based on geography, or heavy capital-requirements (ie hydro companies, phone companies, etc). If any group has temporary control over an item, as long as they keep driving up the prices, it's only a matter of time before the high prices catch the interest of other players who move in to compete, and the prices will inevitably fall again. That's why many companies intentionally reduce their profits if they know their industry can support additional competition."


Ya right. Tried to claim Stroper Chimes lately? Try to claim it, and after doing so try to claim it often enough to get an Archer Ring to drop for you. On Asura there is ONE GUY who's selling them left and right. When you go to Ordelles there are about 15 or more people camping each spot. So there IS competition, but this ONE GUY always sells the rings. Either the people who do get the claim against him dont get drops often enough, or they're all in league with this guy and give him the rings to sell for the farming group.

When they move in, they move in with the explicit goal of monopolizing an item and driving it's price up. They will bring as many people into the area to maintain hold on that item. Win a few claims from them and I guarantee they're gonna bring some friends in to help them guarantee claim again.

[Scatman]

Originally posted by Braanu


Ya right. Tried to claim Stroper Chimes lately? Try to claim it, and after doing so try to claim it often enough to get an Archer Ring to drop for you. On Asura there is ONE GUY who's selling them left and right. When you go to Ordelles there are about 15 or more people camping each spot. So there IS competition, but this ONE GUY always sells the rings. Either the people who do get the claim against him dont get drops often enough, or they're all in league with this guy and give him the rings to sell for the farming group.

When they move in, they move in with the explicit goal of monopolizing an item and driving it's price up. They will bring as many people into the area to maintain hold on that item. Win a few claims from them and I guarantee they're gonna bring some friends in to help them guarantee claim again.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't really prove a thing you know. On my server, the gil-sellers actually reduced the price of rings, but you don't see me announcing that gil-sellers are now suddenly a boon to other players do you?

Besides, it appears to me that most don't understand how monopolies behave. They don't just indefinitely raise prices right through the roof...even monopolies have a sweet spot at which to set their prices. High gross isn't everything, as they need a good turn-around rate in order to maximize profit. As an example, what do you think raises more money...1x at 800K or 2x at 500K? Raising the price too high is simply pointless if it makes the item untouchable.

On top of that, they actually need some kind of irreplaceable good. Sniper's are hardly irreplaceable. How many of you would consider a peacock charm to be staple equipment? Not many I'd imagine, so if sniper's kept on rising in price (due to archer's rising), eventually they just won't be considered essential any longer, and that actually would hurt the gil-sellers more than benefit them.

[Braanu]

Eject your CD and make sure it says Final Fantasy XI on it. I'm not sure you and I are playing the same game.

[CarbonFibre]

I just checked history on Midgard for Archer's ring sales. Except for 2, every single sale in the history is by some guy named Babys. I did a search, Babys is a THF50/WAR25 Mithra rank 1 in Ordelles. :mad:

[Sylviana]

3.1 Prohibited Activities.
You may not use the Game or PlayOnline for any activities that are illegal, fraudulent, or a violation of the rights of any third party. Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, the following acts and activities are strictly prohibited and shall, without prejudice to any other rights or remedies that SEI may have, be cause for immediate termination of your PlayOnline account and your right to play the Game (or any other services) in connection therewith:

(a) Any activities consisting of selling, purchasing or exchanging “gil� or any other currency that may be used in the Game from time to time, characters, and/or Game items for value (including, but not limited to, any payment in kind and any payment in any currency recognized as legal tender in any country, state, territory or other jurisdiction anywhere in the world) through any means or venue, including, without limitation, Internet auctions or other online exchanges;



That is directly from the EULA for FFXI, as posted on the Playonline site. What gil farmers are doing is illegal and they need to have their accounts revoked immediately.
S-E needs to take action against this or the economy is going to collapse just like it did with Ultima Online.

[Roldarin]

Technically gil farmers are not violating the EULA. Its the people who they give the gil to who then sell it that are doing something wrong.

And from some earlier thread GMs cannot track who sends what through the delivery system. So the worse they could do is ban the people who actually do the selling of the gil or the buying of it. The farmers are just that: farmers