Character Projections

[cidbahamut]

Re: Character Projections

grappling yourself...

[Armando]

Re: Character Projections

You know if you take Still Spell then you can cast while grappling yourself...

The problem isn't the somatic components - I'm already allowed to take a hand off the grapple (e.g. to attack my victim.) Grappling simply throws off your concentration.

There's a feat called Uncanny Concentration which you can take after Combat Casting which kind of seems like it would allow me to.

You have learned to enter a deeper state when casting spells, allowing you to shrug off distractions, damage, weather effects, and even the effects of other spells.

Prerequisites: Combat Casting.

Benefit: You do not need to make concentration checks when affected by vigorous or violent motion or by violent weather. You gain a +2 bonus on all other concentration checks.

Grappling has a separate DC from vigorous/violent motion. It depends on whether Yyg wants to go with the rule as it's written, or as it's probably intended.

[Firewind]

Re: Character Projections

Mezlo does that already... without the feat.

Ew

[Armando]

Re: Character Projections

Welp, starting off with 10 INT means I can't get Combat Expertise (13 INT) and any feat that depends on it (Improved Trip > Felling Escape / Greater Trip) 'til level 13. I'll probably forego the tripping thing altogether and just go with this:

5: Bludgeoner (-)
7: Greater Grapple (Improved Grapple, BAB+6)
9: Body Shield (DEX 13, Improved Grapple, BAB+6)
11: Pinning Knockout (DEX 13, Greater Grapple, BAB+9)
13: Rapid Grappler (DEX 13, Greater Grapple, BAB+9)

By level 13 I can potentially smack the opponent for 6 times my blunt weapon damage once he's pinned.

[Yygdrasil]

Re: Character Projections

smack the opponent for 6 times my blunt weapon damage once he's pinned.

rofl

[lyulf]

Re: Character Projections

Lol i'ma be a side kick =D
Wait does this me i need to start grappling? I DUN WANNA =D i just wanna be there to pull a cupe de grace on things armando has pinned =D
And i wanna be damn near impossible to hit lol. RDM STYLE i may not hit hard but you cant hurt me! I SHALL POKE YOU TO DEATH! =D

>.> and if yyg would let me takre beliers bite... i may actually be able to do some damage... I mean its only 1d4. but seriously when your all hitting for like 15-20 damage a swing and i'm poking for 2-4 i think it would balance things out. -_- slightly. it would be useless against things that cant bleed. >.> or leak.

- - - Updated - - -

so far my max hit was 8 right?

[cidbahamut]

Re: Character Projections

You're not fooling anyone sir. Everyone knows monk fists become more powerful than great swords soon enough.

[Mezlo]

Re: Character Projections

Mezlo does that already... without the feat.

True story. I'm amazing.

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so far my max hit was 8 right?

i remember a couple fours. Maybe that's where you're getting 8 from?

[Yygdrasil]

Re: Character Projections

Full Attack + Belier's Bite @ Level 10+ = Far too much damage output to permit.

Assume that you and Jarre are both level 10. You deal 1d10 damage with unarmed strike... and Jarre (as a Fighter) deals 1d10 damage (with a really good weapon).

Utilizing Flurry of Blows you have 4 attacks/round... and without... you have 2.

Jarre would have 2 attacks/round without the benefit of something like Flurry of Blows.

Each of you has the potential to deal between 2-20 damage on a full attack round. You however... have the potential of dealing 4-40 if you exhaust FoB.

Now you want me to let you have an additional 1d4 damage tacked on per hit? We're talking 4-28 without Flurry and 8-56 with Flurry.

(4d10)+(4d4) = No Thanks

Try again, wise guy.

[Armando]

Re: Character Projections

To play the devil's advocate: Jarre's Power Attack would give him +6 damage per hit at level 8 and +9 damage per hit at level 12 due to using a two-handed weapon, and gets his STR bonus multiplied by 1.5 (another +1 damage.) The Bleed Damage from Belier's Bite would average to 2.5 damage per hit and doesn't work on stuff immune to bleed damage, nor does it help overcome Damage Resistance.

[Yygdrasil]

Re: Character Projections

You're not accounting for Lyulf's +damage to hit.

[Armando]

Re: Character Projections

Does he have more than +3 bonus in whatever attribute's going into his punches? Because otherwise Jarre's got him beat there too.

EDIT: Also, I'm not convinced that 1d10+1d4 has the same probability distribution as a 1d14 (if such a thing existed.) The sum of two equal die is more likely to be the mean value than the extremes. A 1d14 is just as likely to come up on 14 as it is on 7. I'd like to do some math regarding that when I get home.

EDIT2: Lyulf's character sheet isn't in the Campaign Info sticky?

[Mezlo]

Re: Character Projections

Does he have more than +3 bonus in whatever attribute's going into his punches? Because otherwise Jarre's got him beat there too.

EDIT: Also, I'm not convinced that 1d10+1d4 has the same probability distribution as a 1d14 (if such a thing existed.) The sum of two equal die is more likely to be the mean value than the extremes. A 1d14 is just as likely to come up on 14 as it is on 7. I'd like to do some math regarding that when I get home.

EDIT2: Lyulf's character sheet isn't in the Campaign Info sticky?

Yyg. Moral of the story is Armando is always right in math so eat a d. (I'm just glad he's on our side.)

[Firewind]

Re: Character Projections

Full Attack + Belier's Bite @ Level 10+ = Far too much damage output to permit.

Assume that you and Jarre are both level 10. You deal 1d10 damage with unarmed strike... and Jarre (as a Fighter) deals 1d10 damage (with a really good weapon).

Utilizing Flurry of Blows you have 4 attacks/round... and without... you have 2.

Jarre would have 2 attacks/round without the benefit of something like Flurry of Blows.

Each of you has the potential to deal between 2-20 damage on a full attack round. You however... have the potential of dealing 4-40 if you exhaust FoB.

Now you want me to let you have an additional 1d4 damage tacked on per hit? We're talking 4-28 without Flurry and 8-56 with Flurry.

(4d10)+(4d4) = No Thanks

Try again, wise guy.

He's also going to be the least accurate character in the group.

At 10th level we are looking at: +8/+8/+3/+3 for Lyulf, and +10/+5 for Jarre without counting any feats.

Thing is, you can't get enchanted Unarmed strikes and Fighters can get far better access to weapon focus feats. Let us assume Jaar has Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Great Waepon Focue (Greatsword) and Weapon Specialisation (Greatsword). Now let us also assume that he has a +2 Greatsword (a very good weapon for a 10th Level Fighter) and his Strength is 18 because he put his two stat boosts into Strength like a good fighter.

Now let us compare:

Jarre: +16/+11 for 2d6+9 damage (without power attack), +13/+9 for 2d6+18 damage (with power attack). Damage range will be 20-60 damage per round

Lyulf: +8/+8/+3/+3 for 1d10+2 (Assuming an extra 2 points in strangth). Damage range will be 12-48 damage per round or assuming you can power attack with fists 18-54 damage per round

Who is the better damage dealer there? Even with a power attack Jarre is still more accurate and has a far higher damage range.

Now Lyulf may have been the better DD had he kept stunning fist and not traded it in for Elemental Fist. A spammable stun attack with two Rogues i nthe party is ridiculously OP and the sheer enabling factor of it would have made him the most useful person in the party instead of the DD that can't deal damage .

As a reference, Cids 10th level damage range, assuming he has a nice +2 Short Sword and has landed a sneak attack so that is 1d6+3+5d6 per swing, would be: 18-78 per round base damage, 30-90 per round with power attack

Basically even with the extra 1d4, the max damage range for Lyulf will be 22-56 (assuming power attack can be used with Unarmed Strikes)

[Mezlo]

Re: Character Projections

Mez's character projection coming up shortly to Prestige class or level 11, once we hear from Yyg what he intends on doing, if anything, in regards to Fire pointing out a misinterpretation of Focus Shot.