Nintendo Admits They Screwed The Pooch

[Malacite]

Nintendo Admits Wii U Failure ★ Changes Coming - YouTube


Nintendo Reports Quarterly Loss - Business Insider

Nintendo Finally Considering Price Cuts: “We Cannot Continue a Business Without Winning” | DualShockers

Nintendo should "get out of the Wii U business" - Pachter | GamesIndustry International



in b4 our resident white knight comes to their defense.

[Icemage]

Re: Nintendo Admits They Screwed The Pooch

Heh. Beat me to it.

Alright, I think the writing is pretty much on the wall at this point. Nintendo always - ALWAYS - gets a holiday bump in Nov. and Dec., but even with that in effect they revised their forecast from a bonkers-insane 9M Wii U down to 2.8M. Bear in mind that they shipped 460K total worldwide in the first 6 months of this fiscal year, and sales only really picked up at Christmas (supposedly a bit under 500K in US in December, and maybe 300K in Japan). That's a disastrous result for a second holiday.

Consider that the current install base for the Wii U is probably a bit north of 5M. The PS4 is sold out everywhere and shipped 4.2M by Dec. 30. We're now 3 weeks past that, so if it hasn't already done so, the PS4 will pass the Wii U worldwide LTD in less than a month (if nothing else, the PS4 launch in Japan will ensure it happens). With that, the Wii U will basically have no market anywhere in the world. The US doesn't care, Europe actually had NEGATIVE shipments for a while (more Wii U returned to warehouses than new shipments), and Japan will finally have a next-gen system to latch onto for whatever console gamers remain.

Nintendo's still doing "ok" for now. 3DS is doing alright and they do have a ton of cash. However, cash reserves don't mean anything if they're not invested properly, and Nintendo hasn't been investing properly for years, and those mistakes are now coming back to haunt them.

It makes me sad to see a company I honestly love walk down this awful path to irrelevance, but that's where we are today. Nintendo sat on their laurels after the Wii and didn't hustle to bring themselves into the 21st century, they wasted a 1 year head start against both Sony and Microsoft, and they made the most impenetrably stupid mistakes with the design of the Wii U as well as the marketing.

I don't know where they go from here, but they'd best do something fast, as they're out of time and excuses.


Icemage

[Carter]

Re: Nintendo Admits They Screwed The Pooch

The Wii U is still a good console...Nintendo just don't seem to have a clue how to market the thing in a way that might actually convince more people to buy the thing

I have a bunch of games on this, most of which are third party and I love the controller, but I have a few gripes about it.

Unresolved issues:

1. The name - still makes it sound like a Wii add-on
2. No dual / multi touch controller screen
3. No analogue triggers - makes playing racing games a pain

Software would follow if the could market it properly...Somehow I don't think a significant price cut will save it tho.

Are there any comparable figures at this stage with the 3DS when it was similarly "failing"...pre-price cut? I wonder how bad the comparison would be.

[Firewind]

Re: Nintendo Admits They Screwed The Pooch

Been arguing this as one of the major reasons why the Wii U has had negative sales in Europe for ages. Nice to see someone else also point it out. SImply put: Nintendo have no idea how to sell the thing.

Is it a tablet? Is it a Wii controller (seriously, there's people over here that still think that)? Why aren't they really showing off the off screen play to families? Why aren't they developing first party games to show off what the controls can do? I know Nintendo have yet to make a first party 3DS game that actually uses the touch screen, cameras and tilt in a non-gimmicky way but still.

Nintendo's still doing "ok" for now. 3DS is doing alright and they do have a ton of cash. However, cash reserves don't mean anything if they're not invested properly, and Nintendo hasn't been investing properly for years, and those mistakes are now coming back to haunt them.

It makes me sad to see a company I honestly love walk down this awful path to irrelevance, but that's where we are today. Nintendo sat on their laurels after the Wii and didn't hustle to bring themselves into the 21st century, they wasted a 1 year head start against both Sony and Microsoft, and they made the most impenetrably stupid mistakes with the design of the Wii U as well as the marketing.

Been arguing this too. Having a ton of cash means jack shit if you aren't investing it properly and are just sitting on it.

[Malacite]

Re: Nintendo Admits They Screwed The Pooch

It's not that they just don't know how to sell it, they've been dragging their feet in so many ways;


- They STILL don't have any of their own Mature IPs, despite the fact that their core audience - you and I who have been playing NES since we were kids - have all grown up. MS only has Halo atm (as far as 1st party goes) and Sony has a plethora of characters and studios/IPs, but Nintendo? Not one. Monolith is a good start but still doesn't quite scratch that itch. "Family Friendly" means the parents too, Nintendo not just the kiddos. Instead they've pulled a Capcom and milked all their best IPs into the ground while ignoring some that are crying out for attention (Metroid Fusion sequel please? It's been over a decade god damn it.)

- Online is a complete joke. Red Dragon did another video recently where Nintendo admits they literally didn't even look at or consider their competition with regards to PSN and XBL and furthermore said that when asked about that, that they were being asked the wrong question. Excuse me? This a major factor in their loss of 3rd party support. Games like Call of Duty and BF4 live and die by their MP modes, and Nintendo's ancient and archaic friend code system and complete lack of a modern account system is biting them in the ass hard. Who the hell is going to want to seriously buy any DLC when that DLC isn't even tied to their account but the system if it was bought on? What happens when that system bricks or some other incident occurs? I for one, would not pay for it a 2nd time and tell them to go fly a kite. It's why I'm not as excited about Smash Bros as I otherwise would be - I remember how shitty Brawl's online was and this will just be more of the same.


Lastly, while the tablet already does more than the Vita, I still think they could find more ways to cross-promote the 3DS and the Wii U. In other words, they need to create incentive for 3DS owners to pick up a Wii U as well to enhance their gaming experience. I don't understand why Fire Emblem for example is still a handheld only series when it's sooooo good.


EDIT: Relevant:

[Icemage]

Re: Nintendo Admits They Screwed The Pooch

Are there any comparable figures at this stage with the 3DS when it was similarly "failing"...pre-price cut? I wonder how bad the comparison would be.

Very bad.

In the first two months of release (by March 2011) 3DS sold 3.6M units worldwide, and was still managing about 150K units/month worldwide even in summer. Wii U had a holiday release and managed to sell 1.9M in its first two months, and not counting the holidays was tracking at around 80k units/month worldwide during the spring/summer.

The 3DS received its price cut and big software announcements about four months after launch in August 2011, so my guesstimate is that it had an install base of around 4.2M by that point. That "seems" similar to where the Wii U is now, until you realize that, up to that point, the 3DS hadn't had a single holiday (Feb. 2011 to Jul 2011). Wii U has been through TWO holiday seasons (Nov 2012 to Jan 2014).

Beyond that, there's not much left software-wise to turn the Wii U around. It already has multiple Mario titles, Pikmin, a Zelda game, etc. A majority of the system sellers are already present on the system, and people just don't care. Smash Brothers and Mario Kart will likely pull some people in, but how many people are left who wouldn't have already bought the system for two main line Mario games, Pikmin, and a Zelda game? Moreoever, what's left for Nintendo - or anyone - to announce that would get it more of an install base that isn't already out or coming?

Wii U's problems are plain to see. Nintendo thinks their first party software is good enough to stand on its own merits and sell the hardware all by itself. They were shown that this was wrong in the GameCube era. The Wii made them mistakenly believe it once again, and the Wii U is reminding them that they're just not capable of supporting an entire sustainable console ecosystem by their own first party production (largely because they hamstring themselves with the idea that they need to always make a certain type of game). Games are great, and games DO sell systems, but modern game consoles aren't just about games, they're about how you play your games and who you play them with.

I gave the Wii U the benefit of the doubt until after this holiday because it DID have some advantages going in; lower price compared to PS4/XB1, a much stronger library than the newcomers, worldwide supply. Unfortunately this combination of factors, plus Nintendo's usual holiday bump, only resulted in moderate success in one region (Japan) which is the only major gaming market where neither the PS4 nor the Xbox One have launched in yet.

It'll be a miracle if Nintendo can make it past 15M install base with this console at this rate unless they cut price drastically to get underneath the Xbox 360 and PS4 (less than $200). I don't see how they manage this without taking a huge bath of red ink when they're already losing money at the current price point.


Icemage

[Etra]

Re: Nintendo Admits They Screwed The Pooch

Then maybe they should stop making shitty consoles.

[Malacite]

Re: Nintendo Admits They Screwed The Pooch

^ and stop rehashing the same exact games over and over.


Seriously, Mario 64 was amazing and new. So were Sunshine and Galaxy. Galaxy 2 was mostly leftovers from the 1st game, but at least it was still kinda fresh. Every mario game since has just been New Super Mario Bros. with slightly different power ups and levels. They're fun, but not mind blowing. Meanwhile we still haven't had a proper sequel to Metroid Fusion, and their lesser used/cooler IPs are being kept to handhelds (DK, Starfox, Icarus, Fire Emblem etc.) There hasn't been any hint of a Wii U Zelda game yet other than that E3 clip we saw way back.

Then there's the console itself - it's basically a Wii 1.5 in HD, with the bulk of the cost in the controller. IM posted those AC4 comparison shots - we know the hardware is grossly underpowered compared to XB1 and PS4. That doesn't mean Nintendo can't make some good looking stuff, but it again hurts them when it comes to 3rd party developers.


I don't see any way for them to pull out of this without changes to upper management and they've already indicated that's not happening.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Nintendo Admits They Screwed The Pooch

It feels like they've basically made all the decisions possible to screw themselves out of cross platform releases.

[Icemage]

Re: Nintendo Admits They Screwed The Pooch

I don't see any way for them to pull out of this without changes to upper management and they've already indicated that's not happening.

Correction: Iwata indicated that's not happening. That's about as convincing as Richard "Tricky Dicky" Nixon saying he wouldn't be impeached.

It's an open question what Nintendo's shareholders will do at this point, and especially now as Hiroshi Yamauchi is no longer there to protect his handpicked protege Iwata. Yamauchi was Nintendo's largest shareholder, and Iwata was his choice for CEO when he stepped down in 2002. With Yamauchi's death, it's anyone's guess how his family (maybe his son Katsuhito) will act. They may continue their support of Iwata out of respect for the father's wishes, but I sincerely doubt that considering that Iwata's reign as CEO has seen Nintendo take a dive off a cliff outside of the Wii bubble.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: Nintendo Admits They Screwed The Pooch

Well, I for one side with Pachter on this - those old dinosaurs running the company need to go, forcibly or otherwise. They're stuck in the past because that's what propelled them to success, but their reluctance to change/accept that their target audience has grown up since the NES days is killing them.


Square's not looking too good either. FFXIV ARR has been a success, but I don't know if it'll last - they abandoned literally everything that made XI a great, lasting game and sooner or later it's gonna wear thin on people (it already has I'd argue, there's a massive ongoing threat about making XIV more like XI was, minus the shit we all hated - basically what we wanted in the first place...).


Furthermore, apparently their goal from here on out is to make FF more like Interactive Movies. So the linearity that people hated about XIII isn't going away, and it's only going to get worse as they add more QTEs...

Inafune said it best when he more or less said that "Japan doesn't get it" (paraphrasing here) and that the west is going to overtake them in game development.


Back to Nintendo though, yeah I wanted to point that out before but you beat me to it IM - PS4 isn't even out yet in Japan, and the Wii U is struggling at home & abroad - that's a really, really bad sign. Feb 22 might be nail in the coffin for them (or at least the Wii U). I split on one with my brother for Boxing Day and it's pretty neat, but it still lacks so many essential features that PS4 and XB1 have and have been perfecting since Gen 6. The only thing I'm really happy about is that the price of the games might drop, so at least I won't be shelving out $60+ per game (for the few games coming out I care to buy anyway).


I really, really didn't want the Wii U to be a 2nd $300 paperweight, but it's looking like that's inevitable.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Nintendo Admits They Screwed The Pooch

Correction: Iwata indicated that's not happening. That's about as convincing as Richard "Tricky Dicky" Nixon saying he wouldn't be impeached.

Well, except Nixon was technically right about that . . .

[Icemage]

Re: Nintendo Admits They Screwed The Pooch

Well, except Nixon was technically right about that . . .

Sure but the result was the same, was it not?

Nintendo's problems on the home console front are legion, and the buck stops at Iwata's desk for that. He has spent the better part of the last decade consolidating power at Nintendo and stuffing the board of directors with yes-men, so he can't blame outside pressure for the failure of the Wii U. It IS his fault, and he ought to take the blame for it. The trouble is, who would Nintendo replace him with who isn't equally out of touch with reality, and what could anyone even do at this point?

There are so very many problems; the online system is a joke and needs major investment, consumer mindshare is broken beyond belief and needs a marketing overhaul, relations with third parties are about as friendly as a high priced call girl, they don't have the internal engineering skill to even get within shouting distance of either Microsoft or Sony in computing power (and hiring that skill from outside would be both expensive and incredibly risky)... how does one even begin trying to get Nintendo out of the corner they've painted themselves into? Having a large warchest is great, but without something useful to spend that money on, it doesn't help Nintendo fix any of their problems. They've spent too long believing their own bullshit about "not needing to compete" and reality is finally showing them what happens when you take things for granted that just aren't true.


Icemage

[Aeni]

Re: Nintendo Admits They Screwed The Pooch

Sure but the result was the same, was it not?

He was never impeached. He never said he wouldn't leave the office, either. And unless there's criminal proceedings after an impeachment, the person who was removed from an office has not commited any crimes under the legal framework of our justice system.

As for finding fault at Nintendo, I would also assume that Shigeru Miyamoto bears some, if not considerable, responsibility. His mantra and approach to game design was always the driving force for much of the hardware decisions being made. Had he left the company, say, five years ago, the Wii U may have not existed, and for good or ill, something else entirely out of Nintendo's paradigm could now be sitting on store shelves.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Nintendo Admits They Screwed The Pooch

As a fan of Nintendo, this saddens me, but it's not like it hasn't been a long time coming. The Wii (and I'm assuming Wii U) is fun to play, but the novelty wears off fairly quickly and I'm back to wanting a regular controller.

I don't claim to know all the inner workings and a lot of what you guys are posting makes little to no sense to me, but I wanna hope Nintendo can get their shit together but I am not terribly optimistic about it.

Also, if the Zelda franchise dies with Nintendo I will be upset. I surely hope that there is some market for them on other consoles, even if it would be super weird seeing Zelda on anything but.