Super Mario 3D World is the best platformer ever created?? The SM2/3/W/64 of Wii U?

[Malacite]

Re: Super Mario 3D World is the best platformer ever created?? The SM2/3/W/64 of Wii

Speaking of Gen 8, not a single deal on either the consoles or games this week. There's deals on other stuff but not those >

Was hoping for a cheap copy of Killzone.

[Fliegar]

Re: Super Mario 3D World is the best platformer ever created?? The SM2/3/W/64 of Wii

Could check out Futureshop / Bestbuy this friday. They might be doing some sort of deal on the games for their Black Friday sale.

[Aeni]

Re: Super Mario 3D World is the best platformer ever created?? The SM2/3/W/64 of Wii

The Wii U is failing on a different set of metrics, but it is still failing.

Icemage

Not sure if you've retracted or clarified your statements, Icemage, but have you forgotten that when the Dreamcast launched, it was at the crest of the tech bubble, an economy that was on fire thanks to the Clinton pro-business policies, and a Federal government that was actually having surpluses in the budget and actually paying down the principles of the debt? Fast forward to nearly a decade and a half later, and you see a struggling economy, an oversized Wall Street bubble, the government perpetually stuck in "at cliff" mode, high unemployment, dismally low income projections, rising interest rates on the horizon, etc. Then add to that deep cuts in safety net, and you immediately slash the number of potential customers down quite a bit.

There was an important article that just came out showing a very long monthly decline of the Vegas gaming scene and that many other gambling venues have also witnessed declines. Video Game sales across the board have been flagging and even the mobile side of things are finally seeing slowing sales, ads and revenues have been down and not just in this country.

I think BBQ has some merit in saying that you cannot make these kinds of comparisons, especially since omissions of economy and consumer spending is not taken into account.

[Icemage]

Re: Super Mario 3D World is the best platformer ever created?? The SM2/3/W/64 of Wii

Not sure if you've retracted or clarified your statements, Icemage, but have you forgotten that when the Dreamcast launched, it was at the crest of the tech bubble, an economy that was on fire thanks to the Clinton pro-business policies, and a Federal government that was actually having surpluses in the budget and actually paying down the principles of the debt? Fast forward to nearly a decade and a half later, and you see a struggling economy, an oversized Wall Street bubble, the government perpetually stuck in "at cliff" mode, high unemployment, dismally low income projections, rising interest rates on the horizon, etc. Then add to that deep cuts in safety net, and you immediately slash the number of potential customers down quite a bit.

Those are excuses, not reasons. Last I checked, the PS4 sold out of its launch in North America, iPads still fly off the shelves, and people still buy $500+ smartphones. The disposable income is out there, it's just that people are choosing to spend it elsewhere than with the Wii U.

There was an important article that just came out showing a very long monthly decline of the Vegas gaming scene and that many other gambling venues have also witnessed declines. Video Game sales across the board have been flagging and even the mobile side of things are finally seeing slowing sales, ads and revenues have been down and not just in this country.

I think BBQ has some merit in saying that you cannot make thse kinds of comparisons, especially since omissions of economy and consumer spending is not taken into account.

Sorry, was I not clear enough pointing out that by Nintendo's own count, they shiped 460K Wii U worldwide in the past 6 months? In ANY sort of circumstances, that's not a good metric for a game console, and all of the factors you mentioned are long-term, which means the prospect for recovery isn't any better. If the Dreamcast could fail under vastly better economic conditions, why does the Wii U or the PS Vita get a free pass just because the conditions now are worse and don't look to be tangibly better any time soon?


Icemage

[cidbahamut]

Re: Super Mario 3D World is the best platformer ever created?? The SM2/3/W/64 of Wii

Because it's Nintendo and everyone loves Nintendo unconditionally. Why you gotta hate on Nintendo Icemage? It's not like they dug their own grave or anything, right?

[Firewind]

Re: Super Mario 3D World is the best platformer ever created?? The SM2/3/W/64 of Wii

When people debate which console is "winning" or has "won" the current gen launch, they all forgot one massive thing:

The 3DS.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Super Mario 3D World is the best platformer ever created?? The SM2/3/W/64 of Wii

Also the PC(read: Steam).

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Super Mario 3D World is the best platformer ever created?? The SM2/3/W/64 of Wii

Because it's Nintendo and everyone loves Nintendo unconditionally.

I counter with this:

Nintendo always seems to have a legion of haters at the wings ready to jump in and prop up straw men about hardware and gimmicks and casuals.

[Icemage]

Re: Super Mario 3D World is the best platformer ever created?? The SM2/3/W/64 of Wii

The 3DS.

The 3DS has one primary competitor, the PS Vita, which isn't doing all that great. It recovered because of a combination of an extreme price cut (30%) and a large slate of announced games. While it's possible that Nintendo will cut the price of the Wii U further, where would the software to increase the appeal of the system come from? Not third parties, and we've seen what Nintendo's first party efforts are doing for the system (not much). The PS Vita suffers from a similar problem; Sony could cut the price but without a larger stable of games to flesh out its library, it will continue to struggle.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: Super Mario 3D World is the best platformer ever created?? The SM2/3/W/64 of Wii

Sony would also have to drastically cut the price of their BS proprietary memory sticks before I go anywhere near a Vita.

[Aeni]

Re: Super Mario 3D World is the best platformer ever created?? The SM2/3/W/64 of Wii

Those are excuses, not reasons. Last I checked, the PS4 sold out of its launch in North America, iPads still fly off the shelves, and people still buy $500+ smartphones. The disposable income is out there, it's just that people are choosing to spend it elsewhere than with the Wii U.

The market for Nintendo is at the Walmart level. Those are the people who are struggling. iPads/iPhones were always targeted to the upper 10% of the income bracket in this country (makes sense, as why would you want to peddle iTunes to a largely "get my music for free off the internet" crowd?) And this crowd will ALWAYS buy the newest iPads/iPhones, as the figures that you get from sales data do not flesh out differences between new customers and existing ones.

In the meantime, Nintendo largely competed with itself, as has been pointed out, the sales of 3DS (as well as the older DSi units) have significantly undercut the sales of Wii U.

I'm not a Nintendo apologist, and I know Nintendo made a lot of mis-steps with the Wii U (even I am still confused as to what the system was trying to achieve), but people are so enamored with cutting edge technology, eye candy, and the like, that it has already gone beyond the capabilities of Nintendo to compete with Sony and Microsoft. I've talked about digital convergence for years now, back when fanbois would troll the forums during the PS2 era, and although it has taken a while for some of the key technological components to appear (iPhone, iPad, media streaming subscription services, etc.), as I've said, if Nintendo couldn't come to terms with it's inability to embrace this convergence, they're likely to find themselves on their way out of the home console market a la Sega.

However, to completely dismiss economic conditions is to be largely ignorant of how the market works. Sega's Dreamcast did relatively better and I explained why. That's my take on it anyway.

It recovered because of a combination of an extreme price cut (30%) and a large slate of announced games.


Icemage

A lot of older PSP units are biting the dust or are on their way out (the directional pads, for example, are not built to last for eternity) It's really just about time older PSP unit owners will upgrade and would rather spring for a Vita than an aging PSP platform. There should be correlated data on the internet to support this idea.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Super Mario 3D World is the best platformer ever created?? The SM2/3/W/64 of Wii

Wow that's a lot of bullshit. Do you need a shovel to go with it?

[Malacite]

Re: Super Mario 3D World is the best platformer ever created?? The SM2/3/W/64 of Wii

Reminds me of an argument made on the last episode of The Bonus Round on GT, where I totally agree (and Pachter's been saying the same thing) that Nintendo needs to wake the fuck up and realize they are the Disney of the video game world - they don't NEED to keep making their own hardware and would probably see massive revenue gains if they'd just go software only like SEGA has - maybe stay in the handheld market, but even that's starting to wear on them with all the tablets and crap.

Part of it is also the increasing number of folks like myself who still love Nintendo, but can't necessarily justify purchasing their new system solely to play the handful of exclusives that will come out, however good they may be. It's not like they haven't done anything this drastic before - it's how they became a video game company in the first place all those years ago (and at the time the decision was met with fierce internal resistance). It would certainly please their share holders I'm sure. I think the big problem is the 2 guys running the show are a couple of stubborn old Dinosaurs who refuse to deviate from what got them to where they are now.

[Icemage]

Re: Super Mario 3D World is the best platformer ever created?? The SM2/3/W/64 of Wii

The market for Nintendo is at the Walmart level.

Nope. Somewhere along the line, Nintendo lost the script.

Game consoles should sell to anyone who wants to play video games. Not just "kids", not just "families". The kids from the 1980s and 1990s have grown up, but Nintendo has not grown with them, choosing instead to focus instead on perpetually being the "kids brand".

By deliberately sacrificing console gamers age 20-40, Nintendo has all but conceded the home console space. Without the ease of use and hype-train of the Wiimote, they have no hope of capturing the casual market, and without the significant third party titles like Battlefield and with weaker hardware they have no hope to capture the older gamers like myself.

However, to completely dismiss economic conditions is to be largely ignorant of how the market works. Sega's Dreamcast did relatively better and I explained why. That's my take on it anyway.

I'm not dismissing the economic conditions. I think you're overstating the effect. Yes, the economy is shaky everywhere. Yes, the Dreamcast was launched in a more stable economic environment. What you haven't explained is why this is in any way helpful to Nintendo. If anything, it's worse. If the Dreamcast and GameCube, which enjoyed a far healthier economic climate, couldn't really get out of their tailspin, how does the Wii U do so with even more challenges in front of it (two strong competitors with superior hardware, worse economy, one major publisher boycotting with the rest poised to follow)?

A lot of older PSP units are biting the dust or are on their way out (the directional pads, for example, are not built to last for eternity) It's really just about time older PSP unit owners will upgrade and would rather spring for a Vita than an aging PSP platform. There should be correlated data on the internet to support this idea.

I don't believe the PSP crowd will upgrade to the Vita. The PSPGo people might, since all of their purchases were digital and carry over, but the people invested in UMDs or homebrew PSPs have no reason to buy a Vita.


Icemage

[Etra]

Re: Super Mario 3D World is the best platformer ever created?? The SM2/3/W/64 of Wii

I don't know why people really care. Just buy and play what you want. Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Philbluberschmit, whatever it is either changes their business model to the needs of the consumer or they die off. /shrug