Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Miyamoto: Retro Studios is High on The List of Candidates For A New Metroid Game - Nintendo Life

Well, that's good. I think the sales reaction from Other M suggests the series was fine in direction it was going previously, Retro or not.

Now that the next DKC is almost ready to release, I wouldn't mind seeing them take a stab at 2D Metroid. I think after MP3: Corruption they kinda pushed the first person angle just about as far as they could go with it.

[Malacite]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

I don't care what people say, I thought Other M was great apart from the writing.


Nice to see they're considering giving Retro another kick at it all the same. I loved the Prime series.


However, it's been how long now since Fusion came out? Can we please get a 2D sequel to that already? It ended on a fairly dramatic cliffhanger, especially if you got to the secret area.

[Icemage]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

I don't care what people say, I thought Other M was great apart from the writing.

Nope. F those d-pad controls for movement (actually screw ALL of the control scheme in Other M, it's janky and awful).

Nice to see they're considering giving Retro another kick at it all the same. I loved the Prime series.

However, it's been how long now since Fusion came out? Can we please get a 2D sequel to that already? It ended on a fairly dramatic cliffhanger, especially if you got to the secret area.

I like Metroid well enough, but Nintendo's got some housekeeping to do. Aside from Other M's wankery, the basic story flow in Metroid feels overly sanitized.

That's not me wanting Nintendo to turn Metroid into Aliens or 50 Shades of Gray. But it's one of the franchises they have that lies in that twilit border between what appeals to kids and what appeals to adults, and it wouldn't really kill them to throw some actually good writing at the series for a change.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

I like Metroid well enough, but Nintendo's got some housekeeping to do. Aside from Other M's wankery, the basic story flow in Metroid feels overly sanitized.

That's not me wanting Nintendo to turn Metroid into Aliens or 50 Shades of Gray. But it's one of the franchises they have that lies in that twilit border between what appeals to kids and what appeals to adults, and it wouldn't really kill them to throw some actually good writing at the series for a change.

"Good writing" is actually not necessary. The Metroid Prime Trilogy has tons of it in its lore, but it takes a player without some childish aversion to reading to appreciate the massive tapestry it lays out for the series. Seriously, Kotaku reposted this massive timeline a fan pulled out of every lore entry that more or less not only explains the events of the Prime games, but sets the stage for everything that happened up to Metroid Fusion.

http://kotaku.com/the-spectacular-st...che-1284029577

That is no small feat for reading that is largely optional - but that's the beauty of it. If the player doesn't want it, they don't really have to read it and can stick to just perceiving the story and experiencing a sparse cinematic here and there.

If we want to find fault in any writing in the series, find fault in the people that ignored all of that lore (and some of their own) to tell their own story in Other M. Other M's whole problem was exactly your perceived need for Nintendo to "get with it." Lore works wonders for the series without invading the franchise's rather introverted nature or getting too cinematic. Its also important to note that games like Resident Evil, Bioshock, Portal Dishonored and Elder Scrolls/Fallout benefit tremendously from lore. One of RE's biggest, most overlooked, failings was the diminished frequency of its lore in RE5 and 6. It doesn't always have to be written, mind you, Bioshock went with audio logs and Portal used the insane drawings of those gone mad to help establish an atmosphere. It goes a long way toward world-building regardless of how its done, however.

Metroid's storytelling is actually more environmental like Portal and the narrative is perceived not unlike it is in Ico, Shadow of the Colossus or Out of this World. Don't you like those moments where a revelation about the story just dawns on you rather than it being forcefed? Like that time you realized which Metroid that was that attacked you in Super Metroid? Or who those shadows in Ico really were? Or just numerous moments in SotC? Do these need to be written better? I don't feel they do.

If you want to see your theory applied with "better writing" let's just wonder why nobody is talking about the Flashback remake released last month.

Hint: Being "written better" didn't help it.

[Malacite]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

Yeah that was one of my favorite things about the prime series, scanning and reading all the lore entries.

And I had very little issues with Other M's controls. IIRC, you had trouble with Pandora's Tower too so

[cidbahamut]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

"Better writing" sometimes takes the form of knowing when to keep silent.

I'm still waiting for a game to live up to the unreasonably high expectations Super Metroid set back in the 90s.

[Malacite]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

I'll agree that Fusion wasn't QUITE as good, but damn close.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

Fusion felt like it was working very closely with a Super Metroid template but lost part of the documentation 3/4 of the way through the project. It's definitely the closest the franchise has come to matching Super Metroid, but something went wrong somewhere and it ended up just being a good game instead of a masterpiece. I think it was the overtly linear path and a lack of proper cultivation of atmosphere.

[Malacite]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

Yeah, the whole "go to this area next" kinda threw off the traditional feel of the series.

Even so, I still loved the gameplay, and the SA-X was genuinely terrifying. I just want a proper sequel with Samus on the run from everybody.

[Armando]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

I think it was the overtly linear path

This. I love Metroid Fusion but it always tried too hard to keep me from going off the beaten path. Half the sequence breaks in Super Metroid are completely benign (e.g. early Super Missiles) and the other half are achievement material (reverse boss order run, no-suit Lower Norfair run, no-suit Maridia run, etc.) Almost all of them require a fair amount of skill to pull off. 95% of it may have been completely unintended, but it all added value to the game.

I think it was the overtly linear path and a lack of proper cultivation of atmosphere.

I don't think I agree with this. The scripted yet unexpected run-ins with SAX added a lot of tension and the whole game felt like you were fighting a losing battle up until the very end. I also don't think a Metroid boss has ever scared the hell out of me as much as Nightmare. But more importantly...

I just want a proper sequel with Samus on the run from everybody.

This. Metroid Fusion came out 11 years ago and they've still not done anything that furthers that story.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

I don't dispute the tension the SA-X added, but in terms of the actual environments...well they just felt like video game levels where Zebes felt more like a world. Part of it might also be the fact that Super Metroid has some of the best sound design of any video game ever.

This. Metroid Fusion came out 11 years ago and they've still not done anything that furthers that story.

Absolutely.
A proper 2D metroid following up Fusion would probably be the breaking point that gets me to pick up a new Nintendo console. There's just not anything out there quite like a good old fashioned metroid game.

[Malacite]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

It's why for all the fun I got out of Prime, I don't want another one just yet.

Fusion just had too much of a crazy ending to simply ignore - and now Samus is wanted by everyone; The Pirates for killing MB and ruining their plans, and the GF for blowing up that research station along with the experimental Metroids they were cultivating - not to mention the army of SA-X Clones they thought they'd be able to control (morons).


Speaking of which, that part kinda ruined the game for me as well. When Adam tells you there's no less than EIGHT of the damn things on board the station, I lost my mind and began to panic - only to never actually encounter them, instead fighting just the one near the end of the game. Granted, that would have been impossible to fight them all at once but they could have had an RE3 Nemesis-like moment with the clones roaming freely in every area forcing you to watch your ass. Missed opportunity.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

Fusion was clearly going for the original Alien vibe a bit. Prior to Fusion, there wasn't really a "you're trapped in here with me" feel to an entire Metroid game, but with Samus and the SA-X that's exactly what they did. Then they also merge Samus with Metroid DNA kinda like how Riply was an Alien Queen/Human hybrid cloned from her blood sample from Alien 3. Samus could absorb the X but was weak to ice like metroids are and Ripley in Alien Ressurection has Xenomorph instincts and acid for blood.

The problem wasn't so much Fusion's setting - they need to do some things different or we're just repeating Zebes and SR388 again - but Other M repeating that setting was a problem because it restricted Samus in many of the same ways. A command structure where she takes orders, her powers diminished/restricted and getting them back from/before/after a boss rather than discovering most of them. Samus taking orders isn't really a problem considering Other M's plot setup - but letting the player know she has all these powers and can't use them becaus Adam said so kinda kills the illusion of freedom Metroid has. I mean, you go from these tutorial where you used most of those powers and they the game tells you you can't use them.

Uh, no, just no. That's like when FFXIII lets you have your first taste of a three party member battle and then takes it away for 20 hours. That is stupid. Here's this awesome thing that makes the game more fun - but you can't use it.

You may as well have just done the usual spontaneous loss of powers all over again. Maybe Samus lost them to Alucard or Megaman at poker night. I don't care about the reason so long as I can poke around and find shit, which is a big part of Metroid for me.

Sakamoto showed he knew people valued these insane tricks and sequence breaking when they went back and remade the original gamea as Zero Mission. What's more is he and the sound designers both knew what Retro had done with the series in that time as the Chozo in this iteration of the original were portrayed as a more spiritual race on top of just being amazing scientists. the music had straight midi rips from Metroid Prime in it. The choral Chozo sounds, anyway.

If they knew that much, then they had to know what they did with Ridley in Prime and Prime 3. Sadly, Fusion made the mistake of having Ridley to start with. We know he died on Zebes and there was no freaking way he should be on deep freeze in a science lab - at least until Other M shows up and he's cloned off Samus' armor just like the Metroids were. While that's a bit of a stretch. the removal of Ridley and Nightmare during the Federation's clean-up of the bottle ship at least explains their presence in Fusion - but if they're able to clone Ridley again for another game after his corpse was decimated by the X in Fusion, I dunno.

Other M really brings into question why Samus would even trust a Federation scientist again enough to take a contract with them later in Fusion.

That whole "Ridley is just a beast" thing annoys me, too. The rest of the series says he's fiercely intelligent, a resilient leader and an evil bastard - its just space pirates submit to the most powerful and whenever Mother Brain was around, he wasn't the most powerful. Its why he ended up playing second fiddle to Dark Samus, too.

Nintendo just needs to let Other M be considered the Zelda CDi/Snake's Revenge of he series and let Retro Studios fix the gaps in the story. This is a part of the continuity that does not need to be respected or maintained.

[Malacite]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

Was it any kind of a surprise though?

The metroid eggs are practically identical to Xenomorph eggs, and then there was Metroid II on Gameboy...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

I think Ridley originally having more of a Xenomorph-like appearance and being named Ridley was the stronger Alien hint than some eggs in Metroid II.



It wasn't until Super Metroid he really got the more dragon-like look - but the xenomorph-ish tail is still there.

As for a follow-up to Fusion. Samus is a fugitive and the GF hauled of our new MB and took her somewhere else. If Retro gets the next Metroid game, they'll just proceed like they have with the series and probably pull an MGS3-level retcon that turns Other M into something that makes sense.

Other M tried to be MGS2 in some respects. The problem with that was MGS already had loose threads trailing into MGS 2 you could pull at and no other 2D Metroid game really did.