Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

Metroid isn't horror genre but "alien and unexpected" does play a lot into that "fear of the unknown" thing.

Also, you insult the Metroid franchise by comparing it to that of Dead Space.

[Icemage]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

Atmosphere and dread are such a important part of horror.

They are, but by that sort of twisted slippery-slope logic half of the video games in existence with boss encounters should qualify as "horror".

Okami? Better call it horror because it has a giant spider boss. Metal Gear Solid? Totally horror because it has scary atmospheric enemies and levels. Prince of Persia? Better call it horror because of creepy enemies everywhere.

Horror isn't just setting, it's a deliberate and focused attempt to evoke fear. No one stops playing Metroid games because they are too scared to proceed. They might stop because they're lost, or can't beat a boss, or maybe the game just doesn't entertain them, but never because they're too scared to continue.

Also, you insult the Metroid franchise by comparing it to that of Dead Space.

Dead Space 1 is a better game than half of the Metroid franchise. /opinion


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

I'm gonna have to agree with that last point. The 1st Dead Space was one of the creepiest, most disturbing games I've seen in a while.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

There's a huge gulf between what Metroid does with worldbuilding that says "this is alien and unexpected" and "this is supposed to be scary". The two are not synonymous, and I dislike the sort of intellectual dishonesty going on when people try to conflate the two.

And I dislike the intellectual dishonesty going on when you say Metroid doesn't have horror anywhere in its lexicon.

I'll submit again: Super Metroid isn't a horror game, but goddamn if it doesn't make fantastic use of some of the same techniques horror games do.

[Armando]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

Atmosphere and dread are such a important part of horror.

I'd argue that the key element in Metroid is solitude, which is achieved mostly by having a large world teeming with living things except none of them can understand you and most of them are hostile.

Solitude can be an effective ingredient to create horror, but is not sufficient on its own. Extra Credits argue that horror games are about creating a sense of powerlessness in a safe environment. Think of Amnesia, where you can't even fight back. You seldom feel powerless in Metroid. Sure, there's a couple of moments here and there, but that can be said of other games - like the first encounter with Vile in Mega Man X.

[Icemage]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

And I dislike the intellectual dishonesty going on when you say Metroid doesn't have horror anywhere in its lexicon.

I'll submit again: Super Metroid isn't a horror game, but goddamn if it doesn't make fantastic use of some of the same techniques horror games do.

Of course there can be intimidating elements. Even dating back to the very first Metroid game on the NES, there was a very tangible otherworldly feel to everything, and many enemies were very dangerous and which you had to learn how to deal with. But the key difference between "horror" and "intimidation" is the sense of control. Metroid often does have excellent worldbuilding, but it never goes out of its way to make you feel permanently helpless or overwhelmed. Temporarily, yes. But never with the intent to make you feel like there is never any hope.

Games like Demons/Dark Souls straddle the line of horror, but even those games are not horror games even with the many grotesque elements. Metroid doesn't even get that close, and I take issue with the idea that Metroid is somehow similar to Aliens (which was Malacite's original statement) on any such basis. The two franchises are set in space and have aliens, and in one specific case share a plot mechanic. That's all. Metroid is not a horror franchise. Aliens is.

Pontificating about whether there are horror elements in Metroid will not turn it into a horror franchise in the same vein of Aliens no matter how much you'd like to argue otherwise.


Icemage

[cidbahamut]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

Pontificating about whether there are horror elements in Metroid will not turn it into a horror franchise in the same vein of Aliens no matter how much you'd like to argue otherwise.

That's not what I'm arguing. You're smarter than this.

You posited that the Metroid franchise contained no elements of horror, which is quite frankly wrong. I'm arguing that it does make use of elements of horror, which is not the same thing as suggesting that it's a horror game.

Basically what I'm getting at is that Super Metroid uses its mastery of sound design to manipulate the player in much the same manner that Silent Hill 2 uses its sound design to manipulate the player. If you disagree with that, then I can only conclude that you are deaf in both ears.

[Icemage]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

Basically what I'm getting at is that Super Metroid uses its mastery of sound design to manipulate the player in much the same manner that Silent Hill 2 uses its sound design to manipulate the player. If you disagree with that, then I can only conclude that you are deaf in both ears.

I never said anything of the sort. I said Metroid isn't a horror game - not a single one of the dozens of Metroid games over the years could in any sane way be classified as horror, and thus bears little resemblance to Aliens.


Icemage

[Mezlo]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

I disagree entirely. When I was young and stupid Super Metroid was often terrifying. Horror might not be its objective, but it's certainly a component or at least a by product of the experience.

This is the root of the arguement. IM would you at least agree that "horror" is part of the Super Metroid experience? Since an experience of "horror" is subjective, I guess all you could really argue is that your experience with the game didn't fall into the "horror" category, where Cid's experience did...

[Malacite]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

Exactly. What scares some people doesn't scare others.

Take the fist silent hill game for example. I know a few friends who won't go anywhere near it - it just scares the living hell out of them to the point they can't sleep. Me? Yeah I found it trippy and spooky back in the day and do still find it genuinely creepy, but it doesn't bother me psychologically nearly as much as for them.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Miyamoto: Metroid still important to us

I don't really recall anyone claiming Metroid was a horror game, aside from Icemage asserting it was neither horror or scary.

Most people seem to understand it is capable of being desolate, isolated, unsettling, grotesque and scary. Empowerment is part of the series, but it does not come without moments that are panicked or startling.