Announcement

**Malacite** · 08-14-2013, 04:23 PM

Re: Xbox One delayed in 8 of 21 launch countries

Won't be enough to bury them, but either way it looks like karma for the crap they pulled before all the reversals.

I say good, let 'em squirm for a bit.

**ItazuraNhomango** · 08-14-2013, 08:31 PM

Re: Xbox One delayed in 8 of 21 launch countries

Hey, Japan isn't listed. I guess not enough people play games there to worth Microsoft's time and energy.

Or, maybe the company will try something really radical. Like, I don't know... Windows 9 for PS4!?

Maybe not.

**Malacite** · 08-14-2013, 11:54 PM

Re: Xbox One delayed in 8 of 21 launch countries

Japan's not getting it, period. We've known that since E3.

**Firewind** · 08-15-2013, 03:25 AM

Re: Xbox One delayed in 8 of 21 launch countries

Originally posted by Icemage View Post

Xbox One Launch Markets Confirmed

Sounds to me like the rumors of Microsoft having production yield problems with the Xbox One are probably true. I don't buy their flimsy excuse about "localization" - not when Switzerland is on the list of delayed countries. I've been to Switzerland; they speak English, German, and French there, and you don't see the UK, Germany, or France delayed.

Icemage

Why do you think that "localisation issues" is rarely something that is bought as an excuse for delayed video games in the EU? Even with smaller studios there is a limit to how long hype for a given game can last, and how much patience people have with constant delays. Persona 4 Arena is a great example for the hype thing, apparently, the game only sold 20k copies across all of Europe in the first ten weeks due to a combination of all hype for the game being dead and the fans being pissed at there being no acceptable reason for Atlus region locking, and then refusing to release the EU build. There's still none of the DLC stuff available here too, so no Nanako commentator for the EU fans. Sadly Atlus will no doubt use this as an excuse to not bother with the EU in the future, even if it was their own fault that sales crashed over here.

What is also hilarious is that English, German and French are the most useful languages to know if you visit Europe, because of how widely spoken they are. Basically anyone that speaks a second language will speak one of those.

**Omgwtfbbqkitten** · 08-15-2013, 03:58 AM

Re: Xbox One delayed in 8 of 21 launch countries

I think Xbox One is probably the first console I genuinely want to see crash and burn. There's really no reason to support the platform given how very unprepared this one is looking even compared to the Wii U right now. I'd rather have a rushed console with games show up late to the party for quality reasons than a rushed console with rushed games.

That's not to say I think PS4's "launch window" games will pan out any better than 3DS, Vita or Wii U before it, though. I can trust fanboys will employ selective memory regarding initial software droughts like they have for other platforms. Just look at PS3 - three years of an overpriced console and very tittle software in the first year is but a distant memory and never happened to some of them. Same thing with PS2 and man I remember how painful that drought was - I had to turn to my ailing Dreamcast, diminishing N64 and catch up on PSX games I missed just to make it to August 2000.

I was so desperate I played Unison. UNISON!

**Firewind** · 08-15-2013, 07:20 AM

Re: Xbox One delayed in 8 of 21 launch countries

Honestly I'd rather not have the rushed console either. Sure it's high risk, potentially high reward but a lot of people seem to be forgetting about the high risk part. Hype only lasts for so long and the Wii U for example, still doesn't have that compelling reason to own the console. While I do dislike the term "Killer App", there is just nothing there not already on another console. While they have done well to bring in a wider variety of games such as Bayonetta, Mass Effect and Assassin's Creed, there is nothing there, nor is there any game coming up that will make the Wii U sell.

The reason why I'm bringing it up as different is that there's little in development that screams "Buy this now!". Same thing goes for the Vita, and everyone knows how anaemic the PSP and DS libraries were for a very long time. At least with the PS2 we could look forwards to MGS2, Ico and FFX. The Third party situation with the Wii is also troublesome. The PS3 and 360 launch lineups sucked but at least there were some decent to good third party games dotted around after the launch date, which isn't the case here with the Wii U and the Vita. That said I am very interested in the upcoming Romance of the Three Kingdoms XII port because that game's interface would be simply amazing to play with the Wii U gamepad or even the 3DS's touch screen. The Wii U would have a really nice niche in Turn Based Strategy and Strategy-RPG games.

Basically I never understood the mentality behind releasing a console before games are ready for it. Would Nintendo have really lost anything by waiting until this Christmas to release it?

A similar thing may well cause the XBox One to crash for similar reasons to this "Hype Decay" I've mentioned. You can only keep people interested for so long before they go elsewhere. It just seems like Microsoft are giving people fewer reasons to buy their stuff and even the apologists at Penny Arcade are stuggling to improve what was already a pretty shitty sales pitch from Microsoft in the first place.

**Omgwtfbbqkitten** · 08-15-2013, 08:05 AM

Re: Xbox One delayed in 8 of 21 launch countries

I don't believe it this "Hype Decay" exists outside of internet forums and comment sections, which is where the party poopers live. If it existed people wouldn't get excited for re-releases or games that never made it west.

Xbox One is suffering not from "Hype Decay" but a tremendous consumer backlash. Perhaps not enough to pry away CoD players or people who are slaves to their friends lists and Gamerscores, but it will be enough to make a difference at launch and cause MS an even greater loss of momentum.

The angered the hardcore, the causals and indie developers all in the span of a couple weeks. They didn't alienate the big third parties because they were banking on the idea that consumers would just roll over and accept MS's bullshit and then put pressure on Sony and Nintendo to do what they do. Didn't happen, so its back to the drawing board for third parties to go contrive new means to justify their DRMs.

Ubisoft already has a few schemes in place, as does MS. MS is trying to leverage the cloud as a reason for an online connection, Ubisoft is starting to insist their open-world games need online connections. Outside of MMOs, I can't think of an open-world game that needed to go online.

**Icemage** · 08-15-2013, 08:50 AM

Re: Xbox One delayed in 8 of 21 launch countries

Originally posted by Firewind View Post

Honestly I'd rather not have the rushed console either. Sure it's high risk, potentially high reward but a lot of people seem to be forgetting about the high risk part. Hype only lasts for so long and the Wii U for example, still doesn't have that compelling reason to own the console. While I do dislike the term "Killer App", there is just nothing there not already on another console. While they have done well to bring in a wider variety of games such as Bayonetta, Mass Effect and Assassin's Creed, there is nothing there, nor is there any game coming up that will make the Wii U sell.

I think the only significant game on the roster for the Wii U that will pull in a demographic that they don't already largely have is Super Smash Brothers. I feel Nintendo is making the same mistake with Super Mario 3D World as they did with New Super Mario Brothers U; there's already a 3DS variation with similar gameplay, and recently, so there's some genre fatigue.

Is it enough to sell the console in the face of the large and growing list of games not coming to the Wii U? Maybe, maybe not, though I do think SSB has a large enough following to convince people to buy it just for that one game (even if only one gamepad is supported....).

Basically I never understood the mentality behind releasing a console before games are ready for it. Would Nintendo have really lost anything by waiting until this Christmas to release it?

I think Nintendo miscalculated badly about how long it would take to develop games on the Wii U. I've said - and still think - the Wii U should have launched in 2010-2011, not 2012. By last year, the Wii hype was completely gone.

Pushing the launch of the Wii U to this holiday wouldn't have helped them. Sure, Pikmin 3, Wind Waker HD and Super Mario 3D World would be finished launch games, but that wouldn't make Nintendo Land anything more than the glorified (if occasionally fun) tech demo it is today, and it's the game that's packed into the Deluxe bundle. They'd still have the same problem of consumer confusion, they'd still have the problem of many people already owning a tablet, and more to the point, they'd have the $400 PS4 to compete against on the one side and probably a $200 PS3 and/or Xbox 360 this holiday.

You can only keep people interested for so long before they go elsewhere. It just seems like Microsoft are giving people fewer reasons to buy their stuff and even the apologists at Penny Arcade are stuggling to improve what was already a pretty shitty sales pitch from Microsoft in the first place.

I have to give Microsoft credit for doing the best they can with the cards they dealt themselves. Their nearly endless reversals may be comical, but they'll improve their market position from "disastrous" to merely "poor".

Pulling back from 8 countries tells me they want to concentrate supply on the places where they can do the most good.

While early adopters aren't the most numerous demographic, they set the tone for the other demographics that follow. If your friends own a console, you're probably going to buy the same brand so you can play with them. So the core early adopters who are there on day 1 set the stage and become the ambassadors that bring in the other multiplayer market segments (sports gamers, the FPS crowd, the third person shooter crowd, the fighting game community, racing game enthusiasts, etc.). This doesn't impact the single player gamers much (RPGs, puzzle games, most indie games, etc.), but what does impact those people is the install base.

The single player games tend to go where the market is strongest with the largest install base (barring intervention by specific publishers/developers). That's why the Tales games have landed back on the PS3 after being bounced around on Nintendo platforms. By the same reasoning, that's why Dragon Quest ended up on Nintendo platforms.

I see Microsoft's gamble here as a reallocation of a limited supply of launch units. They just don't have enough hardware to cover all of those countries in adequate numbers to prevent the PS4 from becoming the "multiplayer next gen console". So they're sacrificing the smaller pieces of the pie in the hopes that they can get enough consoles in their most important markets to prevent the PS4 (or Wii U if that should happen to suddenly catch fire) from becoming the de facto gold standard by simply having more units in the field.

Bear in mind that Sony is launching in a lot of places, so this seem like a reasonable move on paper; they're hoping Sony screws up by the numbers and doesn't allocate enough supply to these critical markets and ends up with shortages that Microsoft can capitalize on.

Icemage

**Firewind** · 08-15-2013, 10:42 AM

Re: Xbox One delayed in 8 of 21 launch countries

I'm honestly not sure about the supply thing. If Sony are telling the truth and the PS4 is indeed much cheaper then the PS3 to manufacture then delays in supply could be avoided. I guess it does depend on how much they are telling the truth and if they really will put out enough consoles and not try to do with they pulled with the PS3.

Honestly part of me is wondering if Microsoft is doing this to attempt to maximise profits by staggering production for each region. If it costs as much as they are claiming it costs to justify the ridiculous price tag, I guess it does give a reason, no matter how much of a cop-out it may be.

Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post

I don't believe it this "Hype Decay" exists outside of internet forums and comment sections, which is where the party poopers live. If it existed people wouldn't get excited for re-releases or games that never made it west.

Xbox One is suffering not from "Hype Decay" but a tremendous consumer backlash. Perhaps not enough to pry away CoD players or people who are slaves to their friends lists and Gamerscores, but it will be enough to make a difference at launch and cause MS an even greater loss of momentum.

The angered the hardcore, the causals and indie developers all in the span of a couple weeks. They didn't alienate the big third parties because they were banking on the idea that consumers would just roll over and accept MS's bullshit and then put pressure on Sony and Nintendo to do what they do. Didn't happen, so its back to the drawing board for third parties to go contrive new means to justify their DRMs.

Ubisoft already has a few schemes in place, as does MS. MS is trying to leverage the cloud as a reason for an online connection, Ubisoft is starting to insist their open-world games need online connections. Outside of MMOs, I can't think of an open-world game that needed to go online.

You might want to check my posts over the course of the thread. I never said the XBox One is suffering from it, but may well end up suffering from it if Microsoft are not careful. Besides if it didn't exist then interest in new releases would never wane due to delays. I'm not calling it universal but it is definitely something that could happen to any console or game given enough delays in game releases.

Maybe I should have worded it a little better but oh well.

**Malacite** · 08-15-2013, 11:24 AM

Re: Xbox One delayed in 8 of 21 launch countries

Are the launch dates set for before or after black friday? Either way this Holiday season will be the real test for all 3 - Wii U may be the cheapest, but there just doesn't seem to be enough appeal, especially with most of the major hits coming next year. And PS4 is a good $100 less than the XB1, which IMO is going to make all the difference this go around. There are die-hard loyalists in both camps, but I still feel like PS4's going to come out ahead even with MS reversing their BS policies.

I'm honestly a bit surprised that something Michael Pachter predicted isn't happening, and that's MS announcing bundle deals with various TV providers like Dish etc. As in, you sign up for X company's service and get a majorly discounted XB1, or sign up for live for 2~3 years etc. You'd think they would have done something like that given the huge emphasis they put on all the TV-crap at their initial reveal.

Or maybe they did have plans for that and in the wake of all the bad PR, the providers all backed out?

**Icemage** · 08-15-2013, 03:31 PM

Re: Xbox One delayed in 8 of 21 launch countries

Originally posted by Malacite View Post

Are the launch dates set for before or after black friday?

They're not set yet, but the smart money says before Black Friday. BF is the biggest shopping day of the year in the USA, and no one will miss it.

There are die-hard loyalists in both camps, but I still feel like PS4's going to come out ahead even with MS reversing their BS policies.

Yep. Nintendo actually has a fair number of their faithful still on the sidelines who will come off the sidelines this winter too.

I'm honestly a bit surprised that something Michael Pachter predicted isn't happening, and that's MS announcing bundle deals with various TV providers like Dish etc. As in, you sign up for X company's service and get a majorly discounted XB1, or sign up for live for 2~3 years etc. You'd think they would have done something like that given the huge emphasis they put on all the TV-crap at their initial reveal.

Or maybe they did have plans for that and in the wake of all the bad PR, the providers all backed out?

Here's something odd and interesting:

Sony Reaches Preliminary Programming Deal With Viacom for Online Pay-TV Service - WSJ.com

If you don't have a subscription all you can read is the headline, but the meat and potatoes:

Originally posted by The Wall Street Journal

Sony Corp. has reached a preliminary agreement with Viacom Inc. to carry the media company's cable channels on its planned Internet-based TV service, a person familiar with the matter said, a significant boost for the Japanese company as it races to secure content rights against technology firms vying to offer similar services.

Sony plans to stream traditional cable channels, as well as on-demand content, over the Internet, posing new competition for cable, satellite and phone companies which have long sold subscription TV services.

Sony must still finalize details of its preliminary deal with Viacom, the person says. Sony also has had discussions with major programmers including Walt Disney Co. Time Warner Inc. CBS Corp., people familiar with the situation say. The status of those talks isn't clear.

A person familiar with the matter said Sony is hoping to launch its online pay TV service by the end of the year. Initially, at least, the service is expected to be available via Sony's PlayStation gaming console - a new edition of which could be released soon - as well as "Bravia" high-definition TVs, but later will also work on other Sony devices including tablets and smartphones, the person said.

It would be amusing if Sony managed to do with this sort of deal what Microsoft won'y be able to accomplish with their vaunted HDMI-in for Xbox One. Cutting the cord for cable is the right way to go about it. Netflix blazed the trail, so it's up to the rest of the players (Sony, Microsoft, Apple, Google) to try and convince the channel providers that combining the services into one place is a good idea.

Icemage

**Omgwtfbbqkitten** · 08-15-2013, 03:39 PM

Re: Xbox One delayed in 8 of 21 launch countries

I'm honestly a bit surprised that something Michael Pachter predicted isn't happening

I'm not. He predicted Borderlands would never find an audience and said 3DS was a failure. He's not good at predicting what consumers will do, he just advises short-sighted investors.

Additionally, people have come to see the kind of bundling Pachter advocated as nothing more than a scam - which it really is. Sure, you get the console for seemingly cheap or "free," but in the long run you're paying more for the "deal" because of the overpriced service package you signed up for with it. Its a terrible business tactic that the common consumer has been burned by enough years ago to be suspicious of it now.

Sega worked with some retailers and services to bundle Dreamcast back in the day, they had a deal with Best Buy and MSN as I recall. It didn't help Dreamcast find any traction.

A big part of the success of the holiday rides on Black Friday deals and doorbusters, as what kinds of bundles remain out there during the holiday. Last year, I'd say 360 had the better value bundle with Forza Horizon and Skyrim, but that's because the Forza game was still relatively new and Skyrim was still hot. Sony's bundle had Uncharted 3 which had already essentially run its course - it probably would have been better for them to push some kind of Playstation Plus bundle, but they chose to underplay that.

Wii U sold, but Nintendo wasn't incentivising it terribly well. My store still had a few at the end of Black Friday.

3DS didn't really need anything special to sell it - it just sold because the games were there and third parties had great deals for them - plus it wasn't hard to sell anyone on Adventure Time. Vita didn't put up any resistance and the Assassin's Creed bundle didn't really set the US on fire, at least. I know it did better in Europe - though I really don't know why because that game was just a heap of missed opportunities.

**Malacite** · 08-15-2013, 03:43 PM

Re: Xbox One delayed in 8 of 21 launch countries

o_O So Sony's gonna beat MS at their own game through Viacom?!

Interesting, and a little ironic.

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Xbox One delayed in 8 of 21 launch countries

Xbox One delayed in 8 of 21 launch countries

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