E3 2013 Schedule

[Etra]

Re: E3 2013 Schedule

As it stands, Microsoft has probably salvaged the Xbox brand reputation, but some people won't trust them enough to come back into the fold, and they're still losing the value proposition (weaker hardware, higher price, privacy concerns with Kinect + required Kinect).

This. I'm not going near the thing. If Microsoft tried to pull this off, God knows what they'll do to the console in the future. Three years down the line, they could slowly work this back in. And then what? Going to sell the console? Most people won't. They'll suck it up and deal with it. I'm sure it's incredibly far-fetched to say they'd add it back in, but I don't know if they'll try to pull anything else in the same line of audacity.

In addition, the Kinect is not for me. I can't even talk to my friends in Japan now about my personal life (relationships, sex, etc.), because of the NSA gathering all my data, including Skype calls. I have no drive to become a figure head for any government or corporation, but you never know what your future holds. If someone wanted dirt on me, just hack into the NSA (or request it) and there you go. My porn habits, browser history, phone calls, texts, all there. Now with the Kinect, it's just added data (talking to friends, family) that could be linked to my file. Even outside of the brilliant NSA possibilities, who's to say my Kinect couldn't be hacked in to? It happens on PCs all the time with webcams (setting the Kinect's default to off will not save you.) It's atrocious and I will not buy it. Call me paranoid, but it is what it is.

I'll stick with my PC, WiiU, and PS4. The trinity is complete.

[DakAttack]

Re: E3 2013 Schedule

I think you're pretty paranoid, but people tend to have wildly different ideas of what privacy is, isn't, should, and shouldn't be.

Personally, I feel that if your privacy concerns stem from feelings of shame, that's something you should work out.

[Malacite]

Re: E3 2013 Schedule

They actually walked back the Kinect stuff before E3 - you can pretty much disable it entirely.

Like I said though, I haven't forgotten nor do I plan on letting slide what MS tried to pull on us. I'm just glad I can, if I so chose at some point nab up the new Halo games without trampling all over my own morals and beliefs. MS still isn't getting any more money from me though - I bought my last 1-year gold membership several months back before all this crap came out (my current sub ends this coming dec and I'm not renewing) so I'll save that as those cards don't expire. I refuse to buy the system new, and I'll probably pick up H5 at some point used as well just so MS doesn't see 1 damned penny from me. It's about the closest I can get to pirating without actually breaking the law.

I have no doubts that they'll try to pull another stunt like this 7, 8 years down the road when it comes time for yet another new console and if/when they do, same deal - write them off until (if) they change their tune again. I'm also hoping that by then Internet standards will be much higher @.@


Halo's always just been something I like to enjoy on my own, or the occasional throwdown on matchmaking - I'd much rather use BF if I'm gonna stream a competitive FPS. Possibly CoD if Activision ever decides to actually fix their shit and add dedicated servers but we all know that's never happening.

[Taskmage]

Re: E3 2013 Schedule

The fact that they tried to do what they did in the first place reflects an utter disconnect with and/or disregard for their consumers. It's hard to see their reversal as anything more than a realization of what a horrible business move they made. The underlying problem is still there. They may not try to do the exact same things, but you can bet whatever they do instead won't be born from a desire to do better by their customers.

[cidbahamut]

Re: E3 2013 Schedule

And now comes the rationalizing.

Let the hate flow through you Mal, let it guide your actions.

[Malacite]

Re: E3 2013 Schedule

When did I ever say MS did this out of the goodness of their hearts lol?

I'm not an idiot. All I'm saying is for now, I can justify getting one at some point if I so choose. Regardless of why they shifted, the important thing is they did, and that when (not if because this is M$ we're talking about) they try this horseshit again we stonewall 'em once more until God forbid it sinks it that you can't just treat your customers like criminals.

[Etra]

Re: E3 2013 Schedule

I think you're pretty paranoid, but people tend to have wildly different ideas of what privacy is, isn't, should, and shouldn't be.

Personally, I feel that if your privacy concerns stem from feelings of shame, that's something you should work out.

It's not shame. I'll tell you everything you want to know. But I want to tell you. Not you find out through the government being nosy bitches. That's neither here nor there for this topic, though.

xbox is still failbox and with the lineup of games for the WiiU, I now feel like my WiiU won't be a brick for too much longer.

[Malacite]

Re: E3 2013 Schedule

It's not shame. I'll tell you everything you want to know. But I want to tell you. Not you find out through the government being nosy bitches. That's neither here nor there for this topic, though.

xbox is still failbox and with the lineup of games for the WiiU, I now feel like my WiiU won't be a brick for too much longer.

Exactly. Halo 5's trailer left a lot to be desired, and it won't be out until next year anyway. Titanfall looked OK, but it'll be on Origin as well so... meh?


Did't see Spark, but I heard it looked cool. Mario 3D World, MK8, Smash Bros & "X" all look far more appealing however - nevermind when the next proper Metroid or Zelda comes out. So, as far as secondary console goes, atm Nintendo gets the edge big time.

[Icemage]

Re: E3 2013 Schedule

Don't forget that all that super cloud processing was actually bullshit weasel speak for "we wanted DRM hardwired into the infrastructure, the consumer be damned".

That's not entirely fair.

Cloud computing has three very useful aspects for consoles.

First, you can distribute multiplayer servers very quickly to meet demand with a bank of idle cloud servers, so if you get an unexpected crush of people playing Halo 5 on the day after Christmas, you can spin up some more servers to take some of the load off around the world or in whatever regions you need. This is a very real and tangible benefit to cloud computing, and Microsoft was not really lying about this aspect.

Second, you can store data on the cloud for universal access. This is what Apple does with iCloud, what Sony does with PS+ cloud saves, and what Microsoft already does with XBL Gold cloud save data. It lets you access saved games, profile settings, and more from anywhere as long as you have an internet connection.

Third, you can maintain persistent worlds like how MMOs do it, only without the need for dedicated servers and hardware. It's less efficient than a dedicated server, naturally, but in a pinch you can spin up any number of servers to handle increased load for a game like Dark Souls which lets users communicate and affect the world around them, "reaching in" to the worlds of other players through a shared environment. I expect this is what a game like Destriny is doing, incidentally, though it doesn't actually require the cloud. Dedicated servers work just fine for this as long as you have enough server capacity.

All the buzzword dropping about "40x the power of the Xbox 360" is complete and utter bullshit, however. You can't use the cloud to help realtime calculations for physics or lighting; the latency is way too large and unpredictable, unless you like seeing weird stuff like having your shadow trail behind you by half a second.

Oh, and the fact that it still demands internet for the initial setup which to me suggests that it will still destroy an entire library of games when the servers go dark.

I don't really get why this is even a thing. You'd think they could just flash the launch units and fix them that way with the patch already loaded. My guess is that they're using this as a pretext so they can "tag" any unit that has been sold and in the wild.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: E3 2013 Schedule

Who the hell knows, shifty SOBs.

The potential for Cloud computing is there, but it won't be a reality until Google Fiber is the global (or at least Western) Standard, and we all know that's a good 10+ years away sadly -_-

Double that for Canada. God how I hate the CRTC...

[Icemage]

Re: E3 2013 Schedule

Who the hell knows, shifty SOBs.

I actually DO know what they were doing with the "3 Xbox Ones in the cloud" schtick.

It's known that the Xbox One has noticeably weaker hardware than the PS4. It has a similar CPU, but the graphics processor on the PS4 is about 50% stronger than the Xbox One's. It has 18 compute units vs. 12 for XB1, 32 ROPs vs. 16. And the memory situation on the PS4 is both simpler and faster. While this (probably) isn't enough of a power differential to make a multiplatform version 1080p on PS4 while 720p on Xbox One, it will still be noticeable in terms of more stable frame rate, more eye candy, faster loading times/level transitions, less pop-in, etc.

That's why Microsoft started spouting this garbage about the "infinite power of the cloud". They were trying to head Sony off at the pass from claiming the PS4 having the most powerful console hardware (which it does), and give their army of fanboys some talking points to try and nullify it as a selling point.

Cloud technology is cool stuff and it can do some very cool things, but, like Kinect, it doesn't make most games run any better or faster.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: E3 2013 Schedule

Yep, all smoke & mirrors bullshit.

I still remember people arguing with me before E3 about how Xbox One automatically wins because of the 300,000 servers... -_-

So they can handle more data, ooooh whoopty doo. Goddamn ignorant morons & their broscience.


You read that article I linked a while back haven't you? The design of the PS4 is freaking genius, and I bet most PC snobs either haven't read it or refuse to acknowledge it as they still rant on and on about how PCs are still superior. From a technical standpoint yes, PC's will always be better on paper, but I've had up to here lately with whole "Master Race" comments (and I wish I was kidding but that's the literal phrasing I keep seeing).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: E3 2013 Schedule

The Xbox One Eighty changes nothing for me.

It still offers no self-publishing for indies, requires Kinect, retains XBL paywalls and wastes a fair bit of RAM on multitasking and media functions. Also, just because online passes, always on DRM and 24 hour checks are gone and unlikely to return doesn't mean they won't be resurrected under some other scheme ("cloud processing" is ripe for abuse). AAA publishers are going to fight the consumer tooth and nail to get their way by any means they can until either the AAA model implodes or someone redefines the business model.

[Icemage]

Re: E3 2013 Schedule

They actually walked back the Kinect stuff before E3 - you can pretty much disable it entirely.

Actually, no you can't. They made some vague statements about how there would be privacy settings for Kinect to turn some features off but the console still requires the camera to be connected or it will not function.

If there's anything that mystifies me about their reversal yesterday, this is it.

My gut feeling tells me Microsoft was forced to repent because the pre-order numbers in NA were lopsided to the point of absurdity. Microsoft knows that without backward compatibility to keep people tethered to their Xbox Live accounts, they can lose market share very easily, especially if the PS4 jumps ahead with a larger starting install base. Friends bring friends in, especially if the console in question is both more plentiful in supply AND $100 cheaper AND has a better value for the online service.

And then there's the US military. There was an almost unanimous reaction from US troops to the Xbox One DRM policies, to the point where pretty much the entire American armed services were prepared to jump ship to PS4 because it's impractical to require a network connection to validate your account when posted abroad. Reversing course on DRM on paper sounds like it would be a win in this demographic, and it is... except...

Kinect is always there. It's required, and if there are any places that are fanatical about security, it'd be the military. Sure, you can maybe "turn it off" but how do you believe Microsoft if you can't actually unplug the camera without making the console non-functional.

Now that pretty much all of the military guys had sort of come to grips with the idea of switching, the price differential, smaller form factor, and most importantly no required camera may still have the same effect as the online DRM: push military staff to the PS4.

Why Microsoft insists on requiring that Kinect be plugged in at all times is a complete mystery. I know they see that they sold 24 million cameras as add-ons, but someone in Redmond has forgotten they threw 500 million dollars at an ad campaign to promote it... and the net result was a handful of dance games, a handful of quirky but fun motion games (Gunstringer, Child of Eden, Fruit Ninja)... and a ton of crap. How many of those Kinects are still in use today? Probably not very many, and a good chunk of those people probably aren't too wild on the idea of spending $500 to buy a slightly upgraded version of what they already have.

Seems like a stupid oversight to me, and potentially fatal for the Xbox One if they don't address it at some point. Thoughts?


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: E3 2013 Schedule

yeah I was gonna link that military thing but I figured old news since the DRM reversal?

It got to the point where they were even going to BAN it on Military Bases & Ships because of fears of the Kinect catching, recording and uploading sensitive info.


Xbox One has 'single handedly alienated the military' - Destructoid

Regular gamers have expressed quite a bit of upset at Xbox One's ridiculous DRM policies, but nowhere is the disdain more keenly felt -- nor more justified -- than that coming from America's armed services. Considering the troops have a lot of downtime, and games are a good way to soak up the hours, the Xbox One is absolutely useless to them.

An article in the Navy Times calls the Xbox One's DRM "a showstopper," and explains to its readers exactly how they'll be unable to use the Xbox One, should they be stationed aboard ships or overseas.

"Microsoft has single handedly alienated the entire military. And not just the U.S. military -- the militaries of the entire world," stated naval aviator Jay Johnson.

As well as the region locking and online check-ins, the Navy Times highlights the "serious security concerns" with the built-in Kinect and its constant listening. Always listening. Forever listening.

"Even when the Xbox One is in sleep mode, its built-in microphone can always listen in," explains the article. "It’s a feature developers say will provide quick voice-command access to games and apps -- but that could spook commanders who might worry the always-connected device could also capture more than just idle chit-chat among troops."

Videogames have become a big part of military downtime, and the Xbox 360 was undoubtedly a hugely popular choice. Don Mattrick has expressed his belief that anybody unable to use the Xbox One (basically the entire armed forces) can just keep using the 360, but I have a feeling service members will instead just migrate to the PS4. According to a local air force buddy of mine, that's already being seen as the best option by some folks.

Now we just need Jack Tretton to appear naked, wearing only the American flag and claiming PS4 is the only console to support the troops, and I'd say this generation is over. Well ... maybe without the flag bit.

No ... no, do the flag bit.

New Xbox 'a sin against all service members' [Navy Times]

Xbox One's Kinect Can Turn Off, Microsoft Says, Noting Privacy Worries


That's 1 of the sources saying you can turn Kinect off, but I've found others contradicting that so... I dunno. If the Camera is still a thing, then deal's off, even with the DRM reversals. I'd thought they changed it but if they're still keeping that requirement, then they can piss off - I really don't like an always on webcam that's recording my actions, words & more.

EDIT:

Microsoft sticking with Xbox One Kinect requirement despite ditching DRM • News • Xbox One • Eurogamer.net


Also, apparently games like Titan Fall which use the Cloud as part of the game will not work offline at all - even single player. I've only heard that from a friend mind you and can't seem to find anything to back that up, but it wouldn't surprise me given it's the old MW guys & EA...