Xbox Reveal

[Malacite]

Re: Xbox Reveal

Yup.

In a gaming context, what happens is that people vote with their wallets.

Sitting and complaining about policies you don't like but buying the product anyway means absolutely nothing. It means less than nothing. It means you're a hypocrite who votes against your own self-stated interests. If you buy the product, you endorse the business model that it is built on; you can complain bitterly about how much you hate it all you like, but making that purchase means you obviously care less about your "convictions" than the product you bought, and gives you no right to complain.

Gamers complained bitterly about Diablo III but it still sold like gangbusters. Now of course there are all these twits who whine about how broken everything is in the game and are (hilariously) complaining about how the upcoming console version(s) are going to be fixed but not the version they bought. But isn't that sort of the point? They bought the PC version of Diablo III with eyes open. The whole reason Blizzard ISN'T fixing the PC version is because there's this core of people who would abandon the game who are okay with the RMAH and are pouring money into the system. Why is there no ire directed at those people? I think there should be, because without some peer pressure applied to this group, you cannot change their behavior and the bad practices continue because of them.


Icemage

While I agree with you on principal, the only problem is in practice it often doesn't really do much. We can boycot Xbox One all we want, but there's likely still going to be millions of people buying it anyways, vastly outstripping those objecting to it (for once though, I may be proven wrong in this instance but part of me doubts that very much) further enabling the cycle of bullshit. Without some way of getting others to follow, all you're doing is pissing in the wind. I won't deny the satisfaction of having made a stand for your beliefs, but I tend to weight the pros and cons before doing anything like that.

Again on your example of Diablo 3, yeah I wasn't keen on the DRM either but I got it mostly for the campaign and enjoyed it for a time... and then promptly uninstalled the pile of crap. Since they sacked Wilson the game's gotten gradually better but it's still not atthe level of quality it should have been at launch[/I]. At least I can honestly say I have never used nor bear any desire to use the RMAH. At first I thought it might be cool, try and hock a few things on there but... nah. All that thing has done is serve to ruin the game's economy and basically re-create Diablo 2's SoJ-ONLY economy by devaluing the hell out of gold.


EDIT: As a side note, I'm still really miffed that I can't rent anything around where I live anymore because it used to be I could just pay a few bucks to try a copy of an iffy game, so I could form my own opinion rather than paying the full damn price and promoting further sales. Really, really hoping Sony comes through on that promise of being able to rent games via the Cloud.

[Icemage]

Re: Xbox Reveal

While I agree with you on principal, the only problem is in practice it often doesn't really do much. We can boycot Xbox One all we want, but there's likely still going to be millions of people buying it anyways, vastly outstripping those objecting to it (for once though, I may be proven wrong in this instance but part of me doubts that very much) further enabling the cycle of bullshit. Without some way of getting others to follow, all you're doing is pissing in the wind. I won't deny the satisfaction of having made a stand for your beliefs, but I tend to weight the pros and cons before doing anything like that.

Again on your example of Diablo 3, yeah I wasn't keen on the DRM either but I got it mostly for the campaign and enjoyed it for a time... and then promptly uninstalled the pile of crap. Since they sacked Wilson the game's gotten gradually better but it's still not atthe level of quality it should have been at launch[/I]. At least I can honestly say I have never used nor bear any desire to use the RMAH. At first I thought it might be cool, try and hock a few things on there but... nah. All that thing has done is serve to ruin the game's economy and basically re-create Diablo 2's SoJ-ONLY economy by devaluing the hell out of gold.


EDIT: As a side note, I'm still really miffed that I can't rent anything around where I live anymore because it used to be I could just pay a few bucks to try a copy of an iffy game, so I could form my own opinion rather than paying the full damn price and promoting further sales. Really, really hoping Sony comes through on that promise of being able to rent games via the Cloud.

I don't have a problem with people who are up-front and honest about feeling that wanting to play a game or other content is more important than taking a stand.

That's not what you're doing. Your words say one thing but your actions say the other, and that's just... sad. You constantly talk about refusing to buy things from company X, then make excuses about why you decided to buy the product anyway, then complain about the product you bought. Playing both sides of the fence; to what ends, I can't imagine, because it's not like you need anyone's approval to buy a product you want. You should just drop the pretense and fake outrage. It'll make you a happier person.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: Xbox Reveal

Think what you want


EDIT: My buddies and I are all pretty much in solidarity against Xbox One at this point. Still interested in seeing if MS will walk back some of their bullcrap at E3 but I highly doubt it and I'm still adamantly opposed to always-on Kinect - that's just way, way too creepy for me. While I found it irritating I got used to the online aspect of Diablo 3. But I value my privacy a lot more than what amounts to a minor inconvenience at best (the online requirement) of rather shitty game to begin with.

[Firewind]

Re: Xbox Reveal

While I agree with you on principal, the only problem is in practice it often doesn't really do much. We can boycot Xbox One all we want, but there's likely still going to be millions of people buying it anyways, vastly outstripping those objecting to it (for once though, I may be proven wrong in this instance but part of me doubts that very much) further enabling the cycle of bullshit. Without some way of getting others to follow, all you're doing is pissing in the wind. I won't deny the satisfaction of having made a stand for your beliefs, but I tend to weight the pros and cons before doing anything like that.

One thing you need to remember is that the sales of the console will affect what developers will choose to release games for. Plus there was the announcement that Sony and Nintendo are telling Indies self publish, something Microsoft aren't doing which has already effected the sales of the Wii U.

Also, Microsoft's actions may well result in retailers rebelling and either stocking the XBox One and not really pushing it, or refusing to stock the XBox One at all. Another thing worth pointing out if that Microsoft alienated North America: the primary market for the XBox and where they made the majority of sales. It would be interesting to see if they can even make a profit on the console given how many people are now set for the PS4, Wii U and/or PC.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Xbox Reveal

While I agree with you on principal, the only problem is in practice it often doesn't really do much. We can boycot Xbox One all we want, but there's likely still going to be millions of people buying it anyways, vastly outstripping those objecting to it (for once though, I may be proven wrong in this instance but part of me doubts that very much) further enabling the cycle of bullshit. Without some way of getting others to follow, all you're doing is pissing in the wind. I won't deny the satisfaction of having made a stand for your beliefs, but I tend to weight the pros and cons before doing anything like that.

This is why you're part of the problem. This attitude that "Well, other people are just going to do it anyway," so you use that to rationalize participating in something you know might be harmful. People behaving that way is why Xbox One exists now.

Again on your example of Diablo 3, yeah I wasn't keen on the DRM either but I got it mostly for the campaign and enjoyed it for a time... and then promptly uninstalled the pile of crap.

You could have watched a Let's Play on Youtube or cutscene digest - still part of the problem.

At least I can honestly say I have never used nor bear any desire to use the RMAH.

You directly supported it by buying the game.

[Malacite]

Re: Xbox Reveal

That's honestly what I'm hoping for, that Gamestop and others adamantly refuse to carry the damn thing. You know there's a dedicated loyal fanbase that's going to guarantee a minimum amount of sales for it, but above all else the Kinect thing just overrides any benefits. I absolutely loathe and detest the very notion of a mandatory always-on camera within my own home that records everything. Nope, not gonna fly MS. The other nonsense is all ridiculous as well and I don't see myself tolerating any of it either (at least, depending on the severity of the consequences) but I absolutely will not stand for that kind of invasion of privacy.

[Icemage]

Re: Xbox Reveal

I absolutely will not stand for that kind of invasion of privacy until Halo 5 is released.

Fixed that for you.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: Xbox Reveal

Fixed that for you.


Icemage

Nope, sorry to disappoint but I'm putting my foot down on this one. I'm not buying a $500 Xbox that's going to rape my privacy just for one game, not happening. If Halo 4 ends up being the last Halo I play as a result, then so be it - I can still enjoy the novels.


Honestly, I have more fun playing Battlefield anyways and even CoD - provided they actually employ dedicated servers at some point, but I don't see that happening any time soon (if ever) so meh.

[Icemage]

Re: Xbox Reveal

Nope, sorry to disappoint but I'm putting my foot down on this one. I'm not buying a $500 Xbox that's going to rape my privacy just for one game, not happening. If Halo 4 ends up being the last Halo I play as a result, then so be it - I can still enjoy the novels.


Honestly, I have more fun playing Battlefield anyways and even CoD - provided they actually employ dedicated servers at some point, but I don't see that happening any time soon (if ever) so meh.

We'll see how hazy my crystal ball is in a year or so when Halo 5 is released.

EDIT: Here's my prediction.

"My brother wanted to play Halo 5 so I split the cost with him. He was going to get it any way, so I'm not really adding a sale to Microsoft."


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: Xbox Reveal

Nope, he's not even a halo fan. Actually I think he's pretty well done with games, lately nothing's been catching his interest except the yearly wrestling games and he's getting sick of the outrageous DLC.


. _ . you really don't think much of me do you

[cidbahamut]

Re: Xbox Reveal

You have a fairly extensive track record Mal. He's just going by what you've repeatedly shown us again and again and again and again.

[Taskmage]

Re: Xbox Reveal

Mal - talks down products and buys them anyway
j9 - talks up products and never buys them

Interesting.

[Malacite]

Re: Xbox Reveal

You bought Diablo 3 too, Mr.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Xbox Reveal

Mal's just your case study of unwillingness to take responsibility.

Had online passes entirely failed, had online only DRM games on PC like AssCreed, Diablo III and SimCity not sold millions or DLC initiatives falling purely flate - Microsoft would have never considered half of what they were doing with Xbox One now.

MS is pretending to embrace the current environment by fighting it. They see how Apple, Valve and others have fragmented the gaming audience and rather than push the industry in a direction that would be more responsible, sustainable and consumer-friendly MS is going to fight the future like Sony and the recording/movie/TV industry fought the MP3 and media streaming. It will end in failure and being MS being dragged into the new model whether they like it or not.

I predict that while Valve may not disrupt the console market with a Steam box they will indeed change the expectations of console owners in regards to pricing and content. Anyone that fights them on those changes will lose big.

You bought Diablo 3 too, Mr.

Taskmage has bought an online-only D3.
Icemage has bought Bioware games with online passes.

The difference between them and you is that their reasoning for doing these things is often way more internally consistent than yours. Icemage only ever buys games new and seldom trades them in, but he doesn't buy every game with an online pass and sees the problem with them.

Taskmage bought D3 - lesson learned. If not by D3, then certainly by watching SimCity unfold.

If a game has an online pass, my options are (1) Not buy it or (2) If i buy it, I buy it used. If its online-only and its not an MMO of some kind (and not just one billed as one after launch), then its an online-only DRM and I do not pay in at all. An MMORPG requires an internet connection, a single-player campaign should not.

[Taskmage]

Re: Xbox Reveal

My objections with D3 have much less to do with DRM and the RMAH or any other form or corporate malevolence than with bone-headed game design.

I don't generally speak out on industry politics, so I didn't exactly have a position to betray by buying the game.