Xbox Reveal

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Xbox Reveal

So if that's the case with Sony I'm now incredibly curious just how big this partnership between EA and MS is.

[Firewind]

Re: Xbox Reveal

I guess it depends on how many people buy the PS4 over the XBox One.

[Malacite]

Re: Xbox Reveal

Maybe EA thought backing MS this time would be good for business?

Methinks they're about to eat some more humble pie real soon. Ah man, thank you SONY! I guess this means we can stop calling him "Crazy Kaz" since he's clearly sane? (Well he and Jack Tretton.)


Seriously is *anyone* that surprised that MS derped this hard? Sony threw Phil Harrison under the bus for good reason, I'm amazed MS was retarded enough to have him onboard for Xbox One.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Xbox Reveal

I'm not exactly ready to let my guard down on the issue yet.

This industry has an interesting way of turning city management sims into MMOs and online passes into "limited editions."

[Pwnagraphic]

Re: Xbox Reveal

Maybe EA thought backing MS this time would be good for business?

Methinks they're about to eat some more humble pie real soon. Ah man, thank you SONY! I guess this means we can stop calling him "Crazy Kaz" since he's clearly sane? (Well he and Jack Tretton.)


Seriously is *anyone* that surprised that MS derped this hard? Sony threw Phil Harrison under the bus for good reason, I'm amazed MS was retarded enough to have him onboard for Xbox One.

I don't think they were really ready. I think they showed what they could going in knowing that they were about to get a lashing, or were just that ignorant in thinking that what they showed us was going to be amazing.

I still want to wait to see what they have to show at E3, but Sony still has yet to show us the actual PS4 and to me that's bigger than anything MS can show me at E3.

[Malacite]

Re: Xbox Reveal

I hope they don't use anything like the hideous models of the PS3 that are out now...

I love the shiny chrome on my 60 GB model.

[Icemage]

Re: Xbox Reveal

Seriously is *anyone* that surprised that MS derped this hard?

I'm a bit surprised, actually.

Microsoft has definitely been pretty clueless with regard to the core gamer market in the past few years, but I didn't really think they'd go through with this sort of obscene DRM scheme (if only because common sense should have told them otherwise). That they're arrogant enough to believe the broader market won't reject having their consumer rights taken away speaks volumes about where their heads are at with the Xbox One.

Sony's probably got something else up their sleeve, in any case. Remember, they're the only first party that used online passes this gen, so it's not like they don't like the idea of inhibiting used games.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: Xbox Reveal

Did you miss firewind's earlier post ?

They pretty much came out against all that. Though, you may be right to suspect some form of shenanigans either via PSN Plus or Online Passes, but I'm still betting against that happening. It'd be weird to see EA back down from them and then Sony continue them.

[Icemage]

Re: Xbox Reveal

Did you miss firewind's earlier post ?

They pretty much came out against all that. Though, you may be right to suspect some form of shenanigans either via PSN Plus or Online Passes, but I'm still betting against that happening. It'd be weird to see EA back down from them and then Sony continue them.

I'm aware of Sony's official statements.

If I were in their shoes, I'd be doing the exact same thing: Letting Microsoft and the 3rd party publishers bear the brunt of the PR nightmare that is DRM.

I like what Sony is doing with the PS4, but that doesn't mean I trust them as a corporation interested in profit to always look out for my best interests as a consumer. Just because they're going to be less draconian than Microsoft's Xbox One and less technologically backwards than Nintendo's Wii U does not mean they're pure as the driven snow.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: Xbox Reveal

Too right.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Xbox Reveal

I'm a bit surprised, actually.

Microsoft has definitely been pretty clueless with regard to the core gamer market in the past few years, but I didn't really think they'd go through with this sort of obscene DRM scheme (if only because common sense should have told them otherwise). That they're arrogant enough to believe the broader market won't reject having their consumer rights taken away speaks volumes about where their heads are at with the Xbox One.

Sony's probably got something else up their sleeve, in any case. Remember, they're the only first party that used online passes this gen, so it's not like they don't like the idea of inhibiting used games.


Icemage

I believe when we were doing the podcast last year you said something to this effect and I disagreed and said this industry is dumb enough to try anti-used on a larger scale. Its more to do with a cycle of big industry behavior. Anytime project budgets and marketing got out of control, something became the industry scapegoat for all the problems of investors and executives and the same tired narrative was rolled out.

MP3s and piracy are evil and hurt artists.
Streaming and piracy are evil and it hurts everyone in TV and movies.
Buying used games and piracy are evil and it hurts the developers. .

"And piracy" is always the part of the narrative that throws it all into question. It usually implies that if piracy is such a threat there's a problem with the existing business model. If everyone was such a crooked thief and we all pirated things to the level of the severity they portray, there wouldn't be the media as we know it now. The simple truth is so long as people are getting a good product at a great price and a comfortable delivery method they will be happy to pay money for it. Make things difficult and they will go elsewhere for the convenience.

When MP3's and piracy were a threat to music not all artists were kept in print, other artists were undermarketed in favor of the latest artist big labels wanted to sensationalize and the FTC was raking the RIAA over the coals on ridiculous CD prices. They chose to fight the MP3 and lost.

When streaming was a problem we had TV shows and movies no longer in syndication, movies and TV shows no longer in circulation on DVD and the ones that were were grossly overpriced in box sets if they were in print. Audiences that were being under-served. The industry chose to fight streaming.

Gaming finds itself in a bit of a different predicament, but just look at the fears of piracy and RPGs getting super bowl ads and its hard not to see used games as anything other than a scapegoat.

[Icemage]

Re: Xbox Reveal

I don't really think it's as black and white as people on both sides of the issue are making it out to be.

Do used games impact how many new games are purchased? Of course they do, because the price is too high. I've lost count of how many times I've heard people say "this game is too expensive, I'll wait until it's cheaper to buy it". That's not because they want to buy used; it's because the price doesn't suit the perceived value. For years we've had console manufacturers and publishers drill the notion of "every game, good or bad, should be worth $60", and now that effort is coming back to bite them because the used market really shows what the true value of a game is due to market forces. There's a reason why many Nintendo titles stay evergreen, and why Call of Duty games hold their value for a good long while, while most other games drop in value on the second hand market. It's that way because that's what people are willing to pay for those titles, plain and simple.

The console market needs to learn something from iOS and Steam as well as physical markets like books and CDs: price appropriately and the piracy and second-hand problem effectively solves itself. Microsoft has completely missed the point and decided that the problem isn't that the price is too high, but that the market is wrong about what games should be priced at.


Icemage

[Firewind]

Re: Xbox Reveal

One notable thing about the piracy debate which touched in BBQ's post: due to DRM, nine times out of ten the pirates offered a better service than the publishers because it wouldn't screw up your machine, or install malicious rootkits, or only allow you a limited number of installs, or forbid you from installing on another device.

All moral arguments one way or another aside, letting the pirates beat you on quality is just not good for business.

[Malacite]

Re: Xbox Reveal

I don't really think it's as black and white as people on both sides of the issue are making it out to be.

Do used games impact how many new games are purchased? Of course they do, because the price is too high. I've lost count of how many times I've heard people say "this game is too expensive, I'll wait until it's cheaper to buy it". That's not because they want to buy used; it's because the price doesn't suit the perceived value. For years we've had console manufacturers and publishers drill the notion of "every game, good or bad, should be worth $60", and now that effort is coming back to bite them because the used market really shows what the true value of a game is due to market forces. There's a reason why many Nintendo titles stay evergreen, and why Call of Duty games hold their value for a good long while, while most other games drop in value on the second hand market. It's that way because that's what people are willing to pay for those titles, plain and simple.

The console market needs to learn something from iOS and Steam as well as physical markets like books and CDs: price appropriately and the piracy and second-hand problem effectively solves itself. Microsoft has completely missed the point and decided that the problem isn't that the price is too high, but that the market is wrong about what games should be priced at.


Icemage

Ironically, Metro Last Light is clearly a budget game, yet delivers a AAA experience for 1/10th of the development costs of say Bioshock Infinite or Black Ops 2. Should it be $60 too? It's a valid point because a big reason some of these games are $60 is because of development costs & the premiums Nintendo Sony & MS charge to have them on their consoles. It would be great to see more games vary in price according to how good they are, rather than how much was spent making them.

The problem with that however is what makes a game "good" is entirely subjective with few universal standards.


EDIT: Also, when the music industry was tanking, it was the so-called "pirates" - people doing file-sharing, that revived it. Probably surprised the hell out of the industry when they discovered that after "pirating" the music, people were inclined to buy it afterwards to show their support. Nothing like good old fashioned "word of mouth" - and all this DRM bullcrap (along with Nintendo's draconian cracking down on streamers) is hurting the industry and *will* come back to bite them in their collective asses. IT'S FREE ADVERTISING YOU ASSHOLES!!!!

File-Sharers Buy 30% More Music Than Non-P2P Peers | TorrentFreak

[Armando]

Re: Xbox Reveal

It would be great to see more games vary in price according to how good they are, rather than how much was spent making them.

The problem with that however is what makes a game "good" is entirely subjective with few universal standards.

I don't see what's so complicated about pricing things at whatever price will maximize profits. No one needs to concern themselves with the subjective value of something except the person making the purchase.