It's Not Wii U, It's Me

[cidbahamut]

Re: It's Not Wii U, It's Me

ITT: Consoles not getting third parties developing games for them is a strength, not a weakness.

[Icemage]

Re: It's Not Wii U, It's Me

The situation is not as grim as you're painting it. I mean. if you're celebrating Vita's surge of indie games and you've missed the ones announced for the Wii U like every other day

...

What's working for Vita may very well work out for the Wii U

I'm always personally pleased when platforms that I own or plan to own get games that I want to play.

That doesn't mean that what I want means anything in terms of the broader market. The Vita is not doing well hardware sales wise, and it's only staying on the market because it has crazy attach rates that allow it to punch above its weight class due to a user base that is apparently open to digital distribution. That and at the current price point I assume it's mildly profitable for Sony, especially with the memory card prices being what they are, so they aren't losing anything by keeping it on the market.

The Wii U is "getting" some indie games, but indie games aren't going to help it any more than they've been helping the Vita (which is to say, hardly at all). I use quotes there because the Vita has been getting them actually released in the last month or two... the Wii U has some recent announcements, but the software isn't here yet.

Indie titles aren't generally killer apps that sell hardware. Both platforms need more games, and more specifically more killer apps, full stop.


Icemage

[Firewind]

Re: It's Not Wii U, It's Me

((Srry about typos and bad grammar and whatnot, typing outdoors so it is difficult to proof read))

Icemage pretty much summed up why the Vita will see some nice sales from Indie games: a large base of users open to digital distribution. Indie Developers like Paradox don't even need a presence in retail outlets due to it because soemthing like 90% of thier sales are from Steam and other Digital Distribution platforms.

Problem with these games on the Wii U: Nintendo doesn't have a heavy base of users that take advantage of their digital distribution options. Nevermind the fact that Playstation Plus rewards the user for going the Digital Distribution route, the vast majority of games for the DS and 3DS are either bought in a store or pirated. I only know two people personally that actually download games on a Nintendo console and I am one of them. Compared to the amount of games downloaded on PSN and even XBoxLive and the number of sales would really be tiny unless Nintendo does a lot to really advertise their eStore.

Indie titles are fun, they're entertaining and there are many great games. The problem is is what Icemage raised: the consoles need killer apps. They don't NEED to be AAA titles, just something that makes people WANT to buy the console. In the case of the Wii U, we are supposed to be getting games but when? Having a good launch lineup is pretty much necessary for a console now, the previous generation all placed too much stock in existing brand loyalty which is the mistake Nintendo are making with the Wii U. They are assuming that it will sell because it's Nintendo, not because the Wii U has games that people will want to play.

Plus add in more and more Third Party Devs going multiplatform to maximise profits, it's pretty much vital that a first party dev studio gets a killer app out immediately because the third party devs and indie devs will just go for what platforms will maximise sales and profits regardless of how awesome a your consoles Killer App is.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: It's Not Wii U, It's Me

I'm always personally pleased when platforms that I own or plan to own get games that I want to play.

That doesn't mean that what I want means anything in terms of the broader market. The Vita is not doing well hardware sales wise, and it's only staying on the market because it has crazy attach rates that allow it to punch above its weight class due to a user base that is apparently open to digital distribution. That and at the current price point I assume it's mildly profitable for Sony, especially with the memory card prices being what they are, so they aren't losing anything by keeping it on the market.

Vita has "crazy attach rates?" In which fantasy world? It sells other stuff - like charging bays - because it wasn't included in the package. it dosn't attach games at a high rate. Adquate storage clearly wasn't part of the package.

I can get a 32GB SD card for $20 new. A 32GB card for vita costs four to five times that. And the data transfer speeds aren't even different.

The Wii U is "getting" some indie games, but indie games aren't going to help it any more than they've been helping the Vita (which is to say, hardly at all). I use quotes there because the Vita has been getting them actually released in the last month or two... the Wii U has some recent announcements, but the software isn't here yet.

And two months ago when they were vapor Vita you were lavishing praise upon the addition. I told you Vita would need more than that, so I'm not oblivious to the importance of retail - but with the AAA industry turning into what it is I'm considerably less excited about the future. Big third party support may be important, but those big third parties are becoming the big record labels of 15 years ago - which is to say detached from reality, obsessed with content control and out to fleece the consumer for every dime they can. That model is starting to unravel at the seams and now is a good time to be moving away from it.

So in many respects, I'd be fine with Vita, 3DS, PC and Wii U going a different route from Playstation and Xbox. Well, its not really a question for PC, it was already there and you can pretend the major third parties don't exist.

Indies tend to get their games out in a more timely fashion, at a higher rate and a reasonable price, so that's part of why they got to Vita quickly. That and what Vita's getting is essentially direct ports whereas what's coming to Wii U seems to be entirely original content, New content takes time. I'm not going to rag on Vita's indie games being since anything to play is good and helpful and in some cases these games were better suited to portable play anyway.

[Icemage]

Re: It's Not Wii U, It's Me

Vita has "crazy attach rates?" In which fantasy world? It sells other stuff - like charging bays - because it wasn't included in the package. it dosn't attach games at a high rate. Adquate storage clearly wasn't part of the package.

Do you even know what the phrase attach rate means?

Retro City Rampage sold best on Vita despite being on every platform in existence. More than on PS3, more than on Xbox Live, more than on Steam, more than Wii eShop. That's the sort of attach rates that matter, because even niche games can get reasonable sales numbers through digital distribution on Vita. That's not something you'd expect considering its miniscule install base.

And two months ago when they were vapor Vita you were lavishing praise upon the addition.

Sometimes it's like talking to a wall with you.

There is a difference between being happy that a game is coming to a platform and it actually impacting sales. As I said above, I'm always pleased when games I like or am excited for come to a platform I already own or am planning to buy. Unlike you I am never under the delusion that what makes me happy will naturally affect the rest of the gaming public (see: your assumption that anyone outside of gaming enthusiasts knows about Link to the Past 2 for 3DS).

What ails the Vita is the same problem that ails the Wii U: a lack of games that can sell hardware. Unlike Sony with the Vita, Nintendo's got a shot at saving the Wii U because their IPs are really strong, but we've seen past generations where that hasn't helped them (GameCube), and you could even argue that the GameCube was in a better position than the Wii U from a technological and competitive standpoint.

Right now it seems like Sony is banking on PS4 compatibility to carry the Vita, but if they think that's what is going to make the hardware fly off of shelves, they're in for a very rude awakening (the same one that Nintendo has been experiencing when they thought the marvel of off-screen play would draw people to the Wii U). A nice feature? Perhaps so. But not something you'd invest in a console ecosystem for specifically.

So in many respects, I'd be fine with Vita, 3DS, PC and Wii U going a different route from Playstation and Xbox. Well, its not really a question for PC, it was already there and you can pretend the major third parties don't exist.

Indies tend to get their games out in a more timely fashion, at a higher rate and a reasonable price, so that's part of why they got to Vita quickly. That and what Vita's getting is essentially direct ports whereas what's coming to Wii U seems to be entirely original content, New content takes time. I'm not going to rag on Vita's indie games being since anything to play is good and helpful and in some cases these games were better suited to portable play anyway.

Wii U isn't getting much content, period. Outside of Nintendo's anemic first-party efforts most of what it got resembles what the Vita got: multiplatform ports. ZombieU, LEGO City Undercover.... what else has the Wii U gotten that isn't first party? Rayman Legends would have been a third exclusive title, but we know what happened to that...


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: It's Not Wii U, It's Me

I'm starting to wonder if Sony should just bow out of the handheld market.

I love my PSP, and the Vita is a very nice machine, but they keep going all SEGA on us with these; By which I mean great hardware but nowhere near enough compelling software. I get that the company is in dire straights and really desperate for something magic, but they really need to rethink things a bit. I'm not sure who's fault this is really, the developers just not putting in enough effort, or Sony not marketing or creating enough incentive. For one thing, BBQ is absolutely right about the proprietary memory - that is just the worst way possible for them to try and make a quick buck. Rather than digging themselves out of the financial hole they're in, it's only widening it by turning people off from the Vita.

[Etra]

Re: It's Not Wii U, It's Me

Rayman Legends would have been a third exclusive title, but we know what happened to that...

Seriously don't understand how that game got delayed by 7 months a month before release.

Also, is the Wii U fun yet? I haven't touched mine.

[Icemage]

Re: It's Not Wii U, It's Me

Seriously don't understand how that game got delayed by 7 months a month before release.

It's not that hard to understand.

Ubisoft undoubtedly gets the same industry sales data (NPD, MediaCreate, GfK, etc.) that everyone else gets, and I'm sure they've seen the NPD and GfK figures for what Wii U managed to sell on the titles that they didn't produce themselves. They also have their own numbers on their raft of titles they've published to Wii U, from Just Dance 4 to ZombieU to Assassin's Creed 3. Someone obviously did the math and decided releasing a niche exclusive on Wii U with a worldwide install base of 2 million units would be a money loser. I can't find it in me to blame them for that, though I do think what they made the developers go through (6 months of crunch time to meet the deadline which got pushed back 7 months?) is inexcusable.

Also, is the Wii U fun yet? I haven't touched mine.

From what I've gathered, LEGO City Undercover is pretty fun if you can stomach the torturous load times. Monster Hunter 3 on Wii U is also supposedly fairly good if you're into that sort of game.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: It's Not Wii U, It's Me

A lot of what Ubisoft does these days is inexcusable.

I refuse to buy another game from them, at least on PC (Yes, I'm still sore over Might & Magic Heroes VI for lots of reasons - not even touching the new expansion.)


Honestly, if not for Watch Dogs I wouldn't even bat an eyelash at them right now.

[cidbahamut]

Re: It's Not Wii U, It's Me

A lot of what Ubisoft does these days is inexcusable.

I refuse to buy another game from them, at least on PC (Yes, I'm still sore over Might & Magic Heroes VI for lots of reasons - not even touching the new expansion.)

Translation: I will refuse to buy a game from Ubisoft until they release one I kind of want to play, at which point I'll cave like I always do.

[Icemage]

Re: It's Not Wii U, It's Me

So Kotaku posted an article today quoting Electronic Arts confirming that they have no titles in development for Wii U.

http://kotaku.com/ea-has-no-games-in...ii-u-507588994

"We have no games in development for the Wii U currently," company spokesperson Jeff Brown told Kotaku yesterday. He did not rule out the chances of EA developing for the Wii U again.

A system is in trouble when EA won't even port over Madden or FIFA. I was only half-joking in my previous quip about EA trying to Dreamcast the Wii U, but now it seems clear that this is exactly what they're trying to do. Not out of a sense of malice, but just simple return on investment.

Without an install base to sell on, 3rd party games will not be profitable. Without those third party games, less hardware gets sold, and thus the rate of growth for install base remains low.

The Wii managed to sidestep this by offering a first-party experience that was approachable and affordable. The Wii U is neither.

And so here we are, half a year since release, and not much hope on the horizon.

I still have faith that Nintendo will produce some great software for the Wii U, but they'd better get their butts in gear and compete for some mindshare because they're almost out of time. Microsoft announces their new hardware in five days, Sony is already rolling the PS4 hypetrain into gear (and still heavily supporting the PS3), and it really feels like Nintendo has missed the boat on their chance to solidify an install base before the competition arrives.

Not having staple games like FIFA and Madden is not helping them, let alone all of the other stuff EA publishes.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: It's Not Wii U, It's Me

Ah, the delicious tears of crying Nintendo Fanboys - they sustain me

[Etra]

Re: It's Not Wii U, It's Me

No EA games on the Wii U?

I now own my first console untouched by the devil.

[Icemage]

Re: It's Not Wii U, It's Me

No EA games on the Wii U?

I now own my first console untouched by the devil.

Uh, no? There are already EA games on the platform. And that sort of "Who needs EA?" attitude doesn't help.

Part of the reason the Wii U is in as much trouble as it is, is this thing about people only buying Nintendo games on Nintendo consoles. If you subscribe to this attitude, you're contributing to the problem.

Unless you'd like the Wii U to be Dreamcast 2.0, in which case, by all means think nothing of the world's second biggest game publisher ignoring the platform. :/ It's not like they control a huge swath of potent IPs that have all become anti-exclusives or anything.

EDIT: Here's an interesting tidbit to chew on. According to Ubisoft EA controls six of the top 20 franchises from 2005-2012 (OK, five, since EA no longer publishes Rock Band).



That's 1 out of 4 of the top 20 gen 7 franchises that have now had their support withdrawn just by EA's decision.

EA controls or publishes a bunch of other potent IPs as well. Army of Two, Crysis, Dead Space, Dragon Age, Fight Night, Mass Effect, PopCap's stuff (Plants vs. Zombies, Bejeweled, etc.), and a host of smaller IPs... all of them are now going to be gone from the Wii U platform for at least a year even assuming Nintendo manages to turn things around this holiday season. That's a lot of big huge holes in a software catalog, and Nintendo isn't equipped to fill most of them even if they tried.


Icemage

[Etra]

Re: It's Not Wii U, It's Me

I would actually like the Wii U to be Dreamcast 2.0. Then maybe Nintendo would stop with lolgimicks and push for a decent system on par with what's being released by competitors. Not to mention, I only own a Wii U for the first party titles. /shrug