PlayStation Meeting Feb. 20: See the future

[Icemage]

Culled from half a dozen places, but the most interesting contributions seem to be collected at NeoGAF:

Playstation Meeting trailer: See the Future. Feb. 20th - NeoGAF

The general consensus is that this is very likely to be a PlayStation 4 official announcement.

Sony is inviting investors and media to the Feb. 20 event; that means console announcement. I'm genuinely excited, although I will be in LA

Just got my invite. February 20 NYC. #IThinkIKnowWhat'sComing

Also buried in that NeoGAF thread:

this is what you think it is

^ interesting.

Guess we find out for sure in 3 weeks.


Icemage

[Etra]

Re: PlayStation Meeting Feb. 20: See the future

I guess we'll soon see if the previous spec leeks...leaks...I can't remember the word... were true.

[Malacite]

Re: PlayStation Meeting Feb. 20: See the future

Strange, as Kaz very recently said they weren't going to say or do anything until MS unveiled their next console.

Either that was a bad joke, or someone in PR smacked Kaz upside the head good & hard (hoping the latter).

[Icemage]

Re: PlayStation Meeting Feb. 20: See the future

Strange, as Kaz very recently said they weren't going to say or do anything until MS unveiled their next console.

Either that was a bad joke, or someone in PR smacked Kaz upside the head good & hard (hoping the latter).

I assume it was a very well executed feint to put Microsoft (and Nintendo) off their guard. A press conference like this isn't organized in a couple of weeks - material has to be prepared, etc. so this must have been months in the planning.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: PlayStation Meeting Feb. 20: See the future

Sony has a lot to prove, honestly. They can start by distancing themselves from the practice of online passes - as to date they have saved no jobs or stopped any studio closures. EA lays you off anyway, THQ still went under. So they can kindly stop propping up the likes of Naughty Dog in attempts to draw sympathy.

While PS+ is proving to be a more worthwhile investment than XBLA, labelling the games as free is still a lie. Free rentals maybe, but its rentals minus choice. Sony decides what you can rent. Just say they're free, select rentals and be done with it.

If Sony puts any focus on Gakkai gamers will collectively laugh them off the stage because anyone with an ounce of sense knows the infrastructure is not there for cloud gaming. I think gamers are going to be much, much more wary about letting go of last-gen's software because next-gen's visuals have failed to impress so far. The nimrods that fawn all over realistic grass and water movement get fewer with each generation. Sony better have a proper BC solution planned because it is not a deficit Steam, Apple or Nintendo have.

And living room PCs from Apple and Valve could very well eat Sony and MS alive. Nintendo has already made measures to remove themselves from living room TVs, which is very telling about how they see the future - Sony and MS want to rule the living room and they are not taking the right steps so far. MS certainly is not when you consider their generous offer of un-paygating Netflix for this weekend. Meanwhile everyone else with a device that runs Netflix laughs.

What they have at launch won't really matter much. Gamers today are spoiled and forget the first year of each console or handheld today is tends to be dry. This is why having BC and your digital library there at day one is going to be crucial. No one has made the transfer gracefully yet and we have 3DS, Vita and now the Wii U proving that. I don't have much faith that Sony will pull it off at thsi point.

[Aeni]

Re: PlayStation Meeting Feb. 20: See the future

I assume it was a very well executed feint to put Microsoft (and Nintendo) off their guard. A press conference like this isn't organized in a couple of weeks - material has to be prepared, etc. so this must have been months in the planning.


Icemage

Indeed, although secrets in this industry are rarely kept well, especially with "unintended, but 'official', leaks".

[Icemage]

Re: PlayStation Meeting Feb. 20: See the future

Sony has a lot to prove, honestly. They can start by distancing themselves from the practice of online passes - as to date they have saved no jobs or stopped any studio closures. EA lays you off anyway, THQ still went under. So they can kindly stop propping up the likes of Naughty Dog in attempts to draw sympathy.

At least admit you dislike online passes because you tend to buy games used and/or trade your games in, and they reduce the value of the disc.

Online passes don't bug me at all as someone who buys games new.

While PS+ is proving to be a more worthwhile investment than XBLA, labelling the games as free is still a lie. Free rentals maybe, but its rentals minus choice. Sony decides what you can rent. Just say they're free, select rentals and be done with it.

You have to return rentals within a specified time period, so calling it a rental is as intellectually dishonest as calling them free games. It's neither; it's a subscription service where your benefits accrue over time. As for not getting to choose, sure, but that's only an issue of what they choose is bad - which is clearly not the case, as the vast majority of the games offered via PlayStation Plus are at least solid games, and quite a few are outstanding.

If Sony puts any focus on Gakkai gamers will collectively laugh them off the stage because anyone with an ounce of sense knows the infrastructure is not there for cloud gaming. I think gamers are going to be much, much more wary about letting go of last-gen's software because next-gen's visuals have failed to impress so far. The nimrods that fawn all over realistic grass and water movement get fewer with each generation. Sony better have a proper BC solution planned because it is not a deficit Steam, Apple or Nintendo have.

No one knows what Sony's doing with Gaikai. If you're expecting them to try to do what OnLive did, you're not giving them enough credit, considering that OnLive sucks terribly and is on the edge of extinction.

And living room PCs from Apple and Valve could very well eat Sony and MS alive. Nintendo has already made measures to remove themselves from living room TVs, which is very telling about how they see the future - Sony and MS want to rule the living room and they are not taking the right steps so far. MS certainly is not when you consider their generous offer of un-paygating Netflix for this weekend. Meanwhile everyone else with a device that runs Netflix laughs.

I suspect Nintendo is laying the groundwork next generation for a truly portable machine. Basically an iPad with standard controls bolted on that runs Nintendo software. I'm unconvinced that this is going to be a successful ploy for them, as they have neither the resources nor the technical prowess of Apple or Google, and both of those are heavily entrenched in the tablet space.

Microsoft and Sony are fighting over control of the living room. Apple has been trying to figure out a winning formula for that for years with little to no success. Valve's Steambox is, to me, an indirect side-effect of Microsoft's war with Sony. Windows 8 changed the rules of engagement, putting Valve's Steam business model at risk, and Valve is firing back in a creative way by pushing back against Microsoft's Xbox initiative.

What I find interesting about that situation is that Sony and Valve were at odds with one another at the beginning of gen 7 (see: Gaben's comments about PS3 architecture, and Orange Box's awfulness on PS3, and Left 4 Dead's snubbing of PS3) - which eventually changed into something much warmer, with Steamworks integration into Portal 2. It makes me wonder where this is headed with the PS4; perhaps Sony will allow some version of Steam on the PS4, or maybe even turn the PS4 into a Steambox variant? Not likely, I know, given that there's money involved here, but I don't see Valve succeeding in planting themselves in front of TVs in any significant numbers without the overt assistance of one of the Big 3. Nintendo couldn't figure out online if their lives depended on it, Microsoft is currently persona non grata to Gaben because of the stupidity that is Win8, which leaves Sony's box which more or less runs a Linux variant. That and Valve and Sony's strengths complement one another almost perfectly. Sony makes excellent hardware and is so-so at architectural software. Valve has almost no experience with hardware but is pretty much the best in the business at bulletproof software. Still unlikely, but I think it's an intriguing idea if the two can somehow come to some sort of financial agreement.

What they have at launch won't really matter much. Gamers today are spoiled and forget the first year of each console or handheld today is tends to be dry. This is why having BC and your digital library there at day one is going to be crucial. No one has made the transfer gracefully yet and we have 3DS, Vita and now the Wii U proving that. I don't have much faith that Sony will pull it off at thsi point.

I don't expect either the next Xbox or PS4 to be backward compatible. It would cost too much money to build in for a function not everyone would use, and the specs I've seen for both boxes don't look anywhere near powerful enough to emulate either the Xbox 360 or PS3.

Microsoft might do another "let's issue emulators for specific games" thing like they did last generation, but there's way more 360 games than OG Xbox 1's, and I don't know how practical that approach would be. Sony for their part don't even have that option due to the quirky nature of the PS3's Cell processor setup. Their only hope is perhaps that patent that filed a while back that would allow a plug-in compatibility hardware module, but who knows if they've managed to engineer something like that into the PS4?

Launch software is still going to be important to bring people in off the sidelines. One of the reasons the Wii U is doing so poorly is because it literally hasn't had a worthwhile release in over a month, and only has sporadic releases on its upcoming slate for the next quarter. The takeaway from this is that the Wii U's launch slate just doesn't do a very good job of communicating why it's a worthwhile purchase and a significant upgrade over what's already on the market (Wii, Xbox 360, PS3). Having ports that are more or less functionally equivalent to the PS360 version doesn't help its case either, except to people who don't own either one of those boxes.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: PlayStation Meeting Feb. 20: See the future

I gotta admit, if Sony & Valve were to colaberate on the PS4...

Yeah I'm gonna need new pants.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: PlayStation Meeting Feb. 20: See the future

At least admit you dislike online passes because you tend to buy games used and/or trade your games in, and they reduce the value of the disc.

Online passes don't bug me at all as someone who buys games new.

I don't ritually buy used. I buy used when its a developer I don't know because supporting a developer on blind faith is stupid. Your good faither did not save jobs at EA or THQ, bad business decisions and practices lost those jobs - so please stop trying to excuse a shitty practice just because you buy new. Its a shitty practice that needs to die with this generation.

You have to return rentals within a specified time period, so calling it a rental is as intellectually dishonest as calling them free games. It's neither; it's a subscription service where your benefits accrue over time. As for not getting to choose, sure, but that's only an issue of what they choose is bad - which is clearly not the case, as the vast majority of the games offered via PlayStation Plus are at least solid games, and quite a few are outstanding.

Clearly, you have forgotten some of the junk they first had on offer. Like old PSX ATV games and shit. Recently it has gotten a lot better, but the first year and a half was pretty spotty.

No one knows what Sony's doing with Gaikai. If you're expecting them to try to do what OnLive did, you're not giving them enough credit, considering that OnLive sucks terribly and is on the edge of extinction.

Assuming Sony won't do what Sony does/fails at best - which is cater to an unsustainable high-end niche market while deluding themselves into believing they have the cosumer following of Apple - is you not giving yourself enough credit as a consumer. What Sony is prone to doing might work for 4k Ultra HDTVs, but Sony has had three opportunities to show us they learned why the PS2 was such a success and each time they've shot for that unsustainable niche and eventually had to come back down to earth.

Vita had a chance to prove this wouldn't be the case, but new were all waiting for Sony to come down a third time. If Vita didn't bring the right changes, PS4 certainly won't. The handheld tends to be indicative for where the next console goes. This has proven just as true for Sony as it has Nintendo.

Not even Capcom wants to touch the Vita right now and they're port-whores. They even laughed down the fan-made rumors about a Monster Hunter port for Vita.

As for Steam on PS4 - Valve is entering the market to compete, not play nice. Not having choice words for Sony doesn't mean they'll consider partnering with them. They're competition now, whether they like Linux or not.

[Icemage]

Re: PlayStation Meeting Feb. 20: See the future

I don't ritually buy used. I buy used when its a developer I don't know because supporting a developer on blind faith is stupid. Your good faither did not save jobs at EA or THQ, bad business decisions and practices lost those jobs - so please stop trying to excuse a shitty practice just because you buy new. Its a shitty practice that needs to die with this generation.

I' m sorry, I must have missed the memo where online passes were somehow tied to business success. THQ's destruction had absolutely zero to do with their online passes, and a lot more to do with cancelling an MMO that had already cost a hundred million dollars, and investing over a hundred million dollars into a uDraw franchise that sank like a stone on the open market.

Besides, I said you "tend" to buy used - which you do - and that you have a penchant for trading in your games after you're done with them - which you also "tend" to do. As such, any game with an online pass directly impacts your purchasing habits, because it reduces the value of the games you buy used, and significantly reduces their value when resold or traded.

By comparison, of the 150+ physical games I own from generation 7 (PS3 + Wii, not counting PC obviously), exactly 1 was traded away (Enchanted Arms) and 1 was purchased used (Batman: Arkham Asylum, because I didn't get around to buying it until there weren't any new copies left to buy).

The impact of online passes on my gaming: zero.

Online passes are, on the face of it, just another form of DLC. It just happens to come with each copy of a game. More to the point, there hasn't been any significant pushback against online passes. It certainly didn't hurt Battlefield 3.

Clearly, you have forgotten some of the junk they first had on offer. Like old PSX ATV games and shit. Recently it has gotten a lot better, but the first year and a half was pretty spotty.

Huh?

The initial list of PlayStation Plus Instant Game Collection titles in North America was stuff like LittleBigPlanet and inFamous, and the games added since have almost all been good-to-great aside from maybe the first few months. What have you been smoking lately?

It's also interesting to note that PS+ is at its best in Europe, of all places. Some seriously amazing titles have appeared on the EU PS+ instant game collection, like Limbo, Deus Ex, and Batman: Arkham City.

Assuming Sony won't do what Sony does/fails at best - which is cater to an unsustainable high-end niche market while deluding themselves into believing they have the cosumer following of Apple - is you not giving yourself enough credit as a consumer. What Sony is prone to doing might work for 4k Ultra HDTVs, but Sony has had three opportunities to show us they learned why the PS2 was such a success and each time they've shot for that unsustainable niche and eventually had to come back down to earth.

From what anyone can tell right now, the PS4 looks to be the most sensible architecture of the big 3 in gen 8. It's a straightforward x64 box with a couple of extra bells and whistles. I'd hazard a guess and say you could probably hack it to install an actually functional version of Linux, though I assume Sony's learned their lesson about not letting people do so this time around. No weirdness in the processors, no weirdness in the graphics chip, no weirdness in memory.

As for Steam on PS4 - Valve is entering the market to compete, not play nice. Not having choice words for Sony doesn't mean they'll consider partnering with them. They're competition now, whether they like Linux or not.

Valve is interested in preserving their crown jewel, which is Steam. Windows 8 threatens that. So does Apple. Gabe Newell is on record regarding the Steambox saying that he's more concerned about Apple than pretty much anyone else at the moment. Steambox just isn't going to make any inroads if they're all $1000 like Xi3's Piston.

But even though he's dismissive of Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo's chances if Apple decides to create some sort of iTV, it's hard to reconcile his confidence that Valve can beat Apple at it if Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo can't, especially since there are more or less zero Steamboxes in place right now.

How does Valve get to a point where they have enough hardware install base to push back against iTV? As I mention above, hardware just isn't their wheelhouse, and they don't have the resources that Google had on hand to produce and market Android.

Something doesn't add up there. That doesn't mean the next Xbox and/or PS4 will support Steam, but as I said, it's an intriguing thought, and it would be an elegant solution to Valve's problems with the Steambox platform.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: PlayStation Meeting Feb. 20: See the future

Really the only time I've found online passes to be annoying was for renting games, which I can't do anymore anyway so... yeah. That, and it also means no split-screen co-op usually which also kinda sucks; a friend of mine was looking forward to getting Dead Space 3 but I told him that it's EA and it will probably be online only, so we'll both need a new copy and frankly, stoked as I am for DS3, again like Ni no Kuni it can wait until later this year. LOL We're still finishing Borderlands 2 >_<

Speaking of BF3 (sad that March will be the last DLC and then no more BF until 2014) if EA continues the trend they did with BF3 Premium, I sincerely doubt Online Passes will be that much of a problem except for people who explicitly buy used. I understand both sides of the argument, but ultimately I have to lend my support to the publishers, especially again in the case of BF3's premium. You buy the game new, you get your pass no problem. And then they go and offer all this insane amount of DLC + other perks for a (relatively) small premium. They can only keep (reasonably) doing that if people keep buying their stuff new, since used game revenues stop at the retailer.


I suppose it's worth pointing out that to 343i's credit, they also put out their own bundle (though it's not nearly as expansive while costing around the same) and gave us 10 episodes of Spartan Ops for *free* (though admittedly, while I like it it's really not as great as I was hoping it would be). I'd be totally fine seeing more stuff like BF3 premium offered by other companies for their major franchises, and Sony would be smart to push for this as part of PS Plus giving more discounts for DLC etc. for subscribers.

EDIT: My point wasn't so much about glorifying BF3 (though I do love that game) so much as companies offering incentives to keep buying new. Just as a small recap; that extra $50 gets you FIVE expansions (each normally priced at $15 each so you're saving $25 right there), priority for server ques, extra assignments, double XP events, exclusive videos/trailers and other goodies.

[Icemage]

Re: PlayStation Meeting Feb. 20: See the future

sad that March will be the last DLC and then no more BF until 2014

I'd say there are better than even odds that a Battlefield title will make it onto the next PlayStation and Xbox. EA may be hella stupid a lot of the time, but there's no way they're going to give Activision/Call of Duty a whole year to themselves on new platforms, especially now that they can close the frame rate gap between the two franchises on new hardware. Especially considering that new hardware "resets the chessboard" so to speak for building up a userbase.

I sincerely doubt Online Passes will be that much of a problem except for people who explicitly buy used. I understand both sides of the argument, but ultimately I have to lend my support to the publishers, especially again in the case of BF3's premium. You buy the game new, you get your pass no problem. And then they go and offer all this insane amount of DLC + other perks for a (relatively) small premium. They can only keep (reasonably) doing that if people keep buying their stuff new, since used game revenues stop at the retailer.

I don't support publishers, per se. I'm actually very neutral to online passes since they don't affect me personally at all. I don't know what the net revenue effect is for publishers and especially developers, but if it's a net positive, then so be it, and if it's not helping their bottom line in a tangible way I would assume they would stop. AAA games are expensive to make these days, and it amazes me still that we've maintained a $60 price point for as long as we have. I do think a lot of games aren't worth that much, and we could certainly stand to have some more variation in pricing than $60 for every physical release, but some games could stand to have a higher price point than that.

EDIT: My point wasn't so much about glorifying BF3 (though I do love that game) so much as companies offering incentives to keep buying new. Just as a small recap; that extra $50 gets you FIVE expansions (each normally priced at $15 each so you're saving $25 right there), priority for server ques, extra assignments, double XP events, exclusive videos/trailers and other goodies.

I don't actually mind Battlefield Premium as a service, though I wonder about profitability there. There must be a reason that Activision discontinued charging for Call of Duty Elite, and it's certainly not out of the goodness of Bobby Kotick's black heart.


Icemage

[Firewind]

Re: PlayStation Meeting Feb. 20: See the future

As much as I personally dislike the idea of online passes, Icemage does bring up a very good point in that we don't know if this does help to support the developer. Also in the case of games like Mass Effect, having an online pass is entirely optional. At no point are you required to go online to complete either game. Regardless of what DLC you may or may not have, you can complete the entire trilogy without once going online (I didn't even know you needed to enter the Cerberus code for ME2 until the first DLC came out). As long as they remain optional to complete a game where I have no intention of going online... Then while I don't like the idea of online passes, I'm not forced to use one either so I won't really complain.

And Battlefield Premium is something I didn't actually mind because it is optional. The fans get to support the studio (again, we don't know how much actually lines EA's pocket) and the people that aren't really bothered about it like myself can just say "Hey I don't have to pay for this service so meh, I'm not going to."

Jeez I can't believe I just posted something positive about Online Passes. Curse you and your reasonable, intelligent posts Icemage!

[Aeni]

Re: PlayStation Meeting Feb. 20: See the future

I agree with Icemage. Impact will be zero on me as well since I never have bought a used game in nearly 20 years and I have never, ever traded games either. Last time I've purchased any game used was back in 1994 when I bought my friend's SNES and a modest library of around 15 titles. After that, I've always received "used" games as a "gift", as they would've been thrown out in the dumpster (rather than ended up at a used game shop) if I didn't accept them.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: PlayStation Meeting Feb. 20: See the future

WSJ says that next PlayStation will stream PS3 games - Destructoid

Yeah, that's not going to work.