Are you a Vita Gamechanger?

[Firewind]

Re: Are you a Vita Gamechanger?

The Wii U's only been out a month? I need to get my Christmas shopping done.

The reason why people are being more optimistic about Sony and Microsoft is that they have always had far more third party support and much of the AAA Development and but cash cow franchises have been on the PS3 and 360.

If the rumours being pinged around by journalists on sites like Eurogamer are true are true than Sony's next console may well have an architecture that developers can actually work with; Sony have admitted that they did make a mistake with the PS3s architecture so it wouldn't be farfetched to think that they may well be making the next console more dev friendly. Plus Sony has been reporting profits in the last quarter (unlike Nintendo that have posted losses), combine this with Sony actually admitting they have messed up with the Vita's launch and I would actually call myself cautiously optimistic.

Then of course there's the Steambox, pretty much the wild card in this.

I keep telling you this but it needs to be reiterated: Nintendo have all of their cards on the table. Sony, Microsoft, Valve and Apple have yet to show their hands. It is way too soon to make a sudden declaration as to which way the wind is blowing.

[Icemage]

Re: Are you a Vita Gamechanger?

The reason why people are being more optimistic about Sony and Microsoft is that they have always had far more third party support and much of the AAA Development and but cash cow franchises have been on the PS3 and 360.

True for the home consoles, but not true for Sony's handhelds (PSP, Vita).

Sony has been reporting profits in the last quarter (unlike Nintendo that have posted losses)

Actually both Sony and Nintendo posted mild profits last quarter. Sony as a whole is still struggling, but the gaming division is doing "ok". Nintendo would be in a bit of trouble right now if the 3DS hadn't turned around, but it has to a fair degree.

I keep telling you this but it needs to be reiterated: Nintendo have all of their cards on the table. Sony, Microsoft, Valve and Apple have yet to show their hands. It is way too soon to make a sudden declaration as to which way the wind is blowing.

I don't think Nintendo has all their cards on the table. I suspect they've left an ace or two up their sleeve for an E3 reveal of some sort.

Sony, Microsoft, Apple, and Valve are, however, still staying very quiet. Sony's going to break their silence on Feb. 20, and there's a lot of positive buzz about what they might announce regarding the PS4, but it's just buzz right now.

The Wii U isn't doomed by any stretch of the imagination. I worried about Nintendo making the HD transition before it launched, and it seems my fears were justified, seeing how Pikmin 3 keeps getting delayed and we've seen precious little else ready for the Wii U aside from a 2D Mario and a minigame collection. I still worry about how long they're taking to figure out how to make games in HD. I worry that the hardware is going to be so far behind the new Microsoft and Sony boxes that it will be virtually impossible to down-port games profitably, leaving Nintendo once again with a huge raft of "anti-exclusives", like what happened with the Wii vs. PS360 game libraries.

But with that said, I trust Nintendo to eventually get their heads on straight and produce some stunning 1st party games, and I trust them to take their time to polish the games like they almost always do. They've still got a ton of extremely potent IPs, and we've yet to see what they can really do with the tech they designed. Whether that will be enough to bring more than just the ~10-20M Nintendo faithful remains to be seen.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Are you a Vita Gamechanger?

The reason why people are being more optimistic about Sony and Microsoft is that they have always had far more third party support and much of the AAA Development and but cash cow franchises have been on the PS3 and 360.

No, it because they forgot what the first year of 360 was like and what the first three years of PS3 was like. Plus those that picked up a PS3 after 2009 can't really complain about 2006 through August 2009 where software releases were slow and when they weren't the console was priced $599 the first year and $499 the second.

You know, that console that was supposed to "inspire" us to take on a second job just to get it. Even Japan's work ethic was like "fuck you, Sony."

I owned a PS2 in its first year.
I owned a Gamecube in its first year.
I owned an Xbox in its first year.

Guess what I got more action out of my first year with PS2? PSOne, N64 and Dreamcast games?
First year of Xbox and Gamecube - after Halo and Luigi's Mansion? A few PS2 games (GTA III, FFX, DMC, Ico, MGS2and then a lot of PSOne, N64 and Dreamcast games.

Sure the PS2 had games in its first like Red Faction, Onimusha, GT3, Zone of the Enders, Shadows of Destiny and..................Unison. By the standard people are judging Wii U by right now that is a wasteland. PS2 finally came around when Ico and Devil May Cry landed in August and September for 2001, they were followed up by MGS3, GTA3 and FFX. Not a bad holiday - but in todays market that would be dreadfully slow and OMG no first person shooters outside of Halo? Why that's insanity!

I really don't understand why people need all these platforms to be the same thing. i really don't. When I look at Wii U's launch and their cautious attitude about online features, at least I'm getting a platform that doesn't encourage all the bullshit on DLC and online passes that Sony and MS allow for. All those Wii U games that were "just ports?" Those versions got the content other gamers on other platforms had to pay out for as DLC. Online passes? None found inside the games. Backward compatibility - not perfect, but there day one all the same for Wii games and Wii Virtual console.
.
And not to mention they've already got a really nice social networking scheme in place with Miiverse. Its certainly something I hope Sony and MS follow. Sony's Near is just plain creepy. Show my handle and where I live to other gamers around me? Just a little too invasive if you ask me. Vita's notification system is also a touch counterintuitive. At least my iPhone and 3DS ask me if I want notifications for games and applications before shoving it down my throat. I still don't know if my trophy updates are just for me or if Icemage gets needlessly updated regarding them.

[Firewind]

Re: Are you a Vita Gamechanger?

Actually you summed up why I never buy a console in the first year of release. Is it unfair to judge new consoles by the PS2's standard? I personally think no in my own opinionated opinion, but sure I do see the other side of the argument there.

One of the problems with the Miiverse is that Nintendo have been incompetent in selling it as they have selling Near. Miiverse is something that I personally find intriguing but also a colossal waste of time and resources because of how tacked on to appeal to Social Networking fans it appears (yes I need the same about near as well). Valve, as much as I rag on Steam (or any form of DRM that is forced onto the user) did actually take the right approach with this. If I want to see all of the stuff that my friends are doing then I can by clicking the out of the way tab that isn't waved into my face every time I try to play unlike Spotpass or Near. If I had a friend called I don't know, Harry H. Harrison from Hertford in Hertfordshire, and I wanted to know if say they bought all of the DLC for say Magic the Gathering 2013 then I guess I could do that but then it also makes me feel as thought I'm standing over poor Harry's shoulder, my breath on the back of his neck while he tried to play Magic the Gathering.

Miiverse's advertising has also been pretty dumb. Nintendo of Europe market their consoles to women in the most patronising and insulting ways possible and like to appeal to families, except they come across as trying to market themselves as a console that only Women and Children would ever want to play, and the only console that women can play. Basically instead of saying "Hey look guys! we're making things as simplistic as possible so anyone can join in no matter if they are a gamer or not!" they basically are saying "ERRRR DEEEEER WOMEN CAN'T PLAY XBOX SO PLAY WII!". Apple got that right without even trying and marketed the iPad and iPhone as idiotproof without coming across as arrogant (Well arrogant for Apple anyway), sexist, condescending or downright insulting. Why couldn't Nintendo do that with their consoles?

That said, in the EU at least, Near and Miiverse are entirely optional and don't use any of your information and opting in to the stuff that shares your location and usage is completely optional by EU law, so there is that. It kind of defeats the purpose entirely but hey, at least I'm not having some Creeper looking over my shoulder reminding me "That'sss a very nice game you have there..."

The Wii U isn't doomed by any stretch of the imagination. I worried about Nintendo making the HD transition before it launched, and it seems my fears were justified, seeing how Pikmin 3 keeps getting delayed and we've seen precious little else ready for the Wii U aside from a 2D Mario and a minigame collection. I still worry about how long they're taking to figure out how to make games in HD. I worry that the hardware is going to be so far behind the new Microsoft and Sony boxes that it will be virtually impossible to down-port games profitably, leaving Nintendo once again with a huge raft of "anti-exclusives", like what happened with the Wii vs. PS360 game libraries.

But with that said, I trust Nintendo to eventually get their heads on straight and produce some stunning 1st party games, and I trust them to take their time to polish the games like they almost always do. They've still got a ton of extremely potent IPs, and we've yet to see what they can really do with the tech they designed. Whether that will be enough to bring more than just the ~10-20M Nintendo faithful remains to be seen.


Icemage

BBC News - Nintendo cuts Wii-U sales forecast

Ah, my mistake, they did make a profit, I stand corrected.

I wasn't trying to sound as though I'm claiming the Wii U is doomed; after all, they may well pull something very cool out of their sleeves come E3 and I do count them among the reason why I'm not ready to shout out which way the wind is blowing. I was giving the other console makers as an example because it needs to be said that someone may well pull out something incredible.

The thing is, I've been optimistic towards Sony in the last few weeks not because of some kind of brand loyalty or me even liking Sony (I personally find them more amusing, but in a sad way than anything else), but it is the "New Star Wars Films" attitude towards what Sony are planning. The new Star Wars films really don't need to do much to be better than Episodes 1-3 yet there is a chance that they could be awesome, which is great, but if they're also bad then I'll shrug and carry on watching the old films.

Applying this to Sony, it really won't take much for them to be going in the right direction, especially towards selling more Vitas. If they do do it then it will be great for everyone and a step in the right direction. If they don't do it then, well, see you Sony, I'm sure I will eventually get to dust off the $400 paperweight that is my 3DS once Nintendo realise there are countries not called "Japan" or "The US", and actually give me a reason to play things other than regular DS games on it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Are you a Vita Gamechanger?

Sony does need to put the prequel trilogy mentality (PSP, PS3, Vita) behind them.

Sadly, I'm just inclined to believe they'll continue on with the mistake they made with the last two platforms:

No backward compatibility and if there is any for downloaded software, a painfully slow transition like we experienced with the Vita. Vita's digital library still is not all there yet. MS, in my mind, has absolutely no excuses not to offer compatibility as their hardware shift is less radical than Sony's (a friendlier PC-like architecture is radical when we're talking about Sony) For both it is critical that all as many digital offerings as possible make the transition or their customers are going to be quite pissed they still have to tote around the older platforms to access their downloads.

We live in a time where digital portability is crucial to any platform. Any mistakes Sony and MS make are going to be the best free advertising Nintendo, Apple, Steam and GoG could ask for.

[Icemage]

Re: Are you a Vita Gamechanger?

That does open up an interesting question though. How much does backward compatibility matter?

Certainly on the Wii U, BC hasn't done much of anything for it. People weren't really buying Wii before Wii U launched, and given that there wasn't much momentum to transfer over, I would hold forth that the Wii U would be doing just as badly now whether or not it had backward compatibility.

Sony and Microsoft have a much bigger problem on their hands, since both actually have decent online storefronts, with a lot of money that people have spent. Taking away at least the option of BC for those that have spent a lot historically doesn't sound like the wisest of business decisions, but the honest truth is that there really isn't any way for either one to offer a low cost BC option. Certainly as things stand, neither box can do software emulation for the Xbox 360 or PS3 without some sort of built-in hardware assistance (note: Xbox 360 and PS3 both use PowerPC based architectures, whereas both new machines are rumored to be x64, and the differences are stark enough that software emulation at the required instruction speeds would be virtually impossible, even with the much faster chips).

With the Vita, I really think Sony missed the boat in not offering a separate UMD drive or offering some sort of way to convert physical PSP copies into digital. Not having the bulk of the PSP library accessible - particularly when everything on the PSN storefront just "works", is particularly galling. Then again, maybe they were right in assuming that the PSP had no momentum to transfer to the Vita and therefore BC wasn't worth it? Hmm.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: Are you a Vita Gamechanger?

Sony does need to put the prequel trilogy mentality (PSP, PS3, Vita) behind them.

Sadly, I'm just inclined to believe they'll continue on with the mistake they made with the last two platforms:

No backward compatibility and if there is any for downloaded software, a painfully slow transition like we experienced with the Vita. Vita's digital library still is not all there yet. MS, in my mind, has absolutely no excuses not to offer compatibility as their hardware shift is less radical than Sony's (a friendlier PC-like architecture is radical when we're talking about Sony) For both it is critical that all as many digital offerings as possible make the transition or their customers are going to be quite pissed they still have to tote around the older platforms to access their downloads.

We live in a time where digital portability is crucial to any platform. Any mistakes Sony and MS make are going to be the best free advertising Nintendo, Apple, Steam and GoG could ask for.

Seriously, if I can't play my PS3 games on the PS4... then they can shove it up their ass. It's bad enough I had to buy my PS3 when I did because it was being discontinued in order to maintain my older library...

Granted, I don't play those games so much anymore, but it's nice to know I can if I ever wish to (and there's a certain someone I've been wanting to do that with for a while now ^_^ ) so yeah, no BC is a deal breaker for me - unless the new stuff is so compelling that I can't possibly resist it (unlikely but we'll see).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Are you a Vita Gamechanger?

People may downplay physical BC, but no compatibility for digital purchases is just playing with fire. I'm sure PSOne and PS2 Classics will make the jump for PS4, but the idea someone might not get to enjoy The Journey or their digital versions of Ico/SotC or Ni No Kuni is going to be a major burn to consumers. Digital purchases are an investment in a network, so gamers are going to feel differently about that - and I seriously doubt Sony and MS are going to offer credit for the games you can't play now.

I love my 3DS and the Vita because I can have all these classics to waste some time on as well as newer games. What can I say? The Game Boy version of Donkey Kong is still a damn fine game and the PSOne Final Fantasy games and Castlevania SOTN are just games I eventually come back to.

Sony embracing the flash format like Nintendo had for years was likely inevitable. I'll fully admit I was displeased with them abandoning the UMD format, but DSi had hooked me on the idea of having lots of games digitally in my pocket before I owned a PSP. Its just better not to have moving parts - but the fact that Sony never worked with companies to get a lot of the stragglers in the PSP library on PSN is a bit of a shame. Sony promised a solution to getting digital version of UMD games and it never materialized. Maybe SE will remake Crisis Core and KH Birth By Sleep at some point but those were great games that deserved to move forward with the Vita.

Since digital is an inevitable part of the future, compatibility with digital purchases is going to matter. If Steam pulled in an update what Sony and MS are about to with consoles, PC gamers would burn Valve to the ground.

I mean, you've put a good deal of money into PSN games, right? I'm still a touch peeved I can't get MGS Legacy of Kain downloaded, but otherwise I have access to all of my PSP and PSOne libraries. What i don't care for is that there is still no PS2 Classic support and so I've got about $60 in PS2 games on PSN held hostage unless I get a PS3 again or likely a PS4.

[Malacite]

Re: Are you a Vita Gamechanger?

I still prefer owning physical media, but there are benefits to digital storage (like being able to download the item again if you lose it for some reason, as opposed to losing a physical disc) just... seriously WTF @ the storage prices these days.

And I don't just mean for Vita, but the price on HDD's too for consoles is absurd compared to PC storage.

[Firewind]

Re: Are you a Vita Gamechanger?

I remember discussing Digital Downloads with Armando on Saturday and have a similar opinion to him really: Digital Downloads are fine and good but when it costs the same as the actual physical copy of the game (like on eShop, XBL and PSN), then I'd rather just have the actual physical copy of the game.

It's actually one of the main reasons why I do prefer Steam (Ironic for someone who hates DRM in any form I know) over XBL, PSN or eShop for games since Steam games are actually a lot cheaper than the physical copy of the game so I have more of an incentive to go the Digital Distribution route.

If Sony wants to encourage the use of PSN, something that is going really well in Europe because of the games offered on Playstation Plus, then they really could do a bit more to encourage people to adopt the Digital Distribution route. Playstation Plus' discounts are a great way to start though and it blows everything that Microsoft has out of the water who struggle to justify XBox Live Gold more and more with each passing day.

[Malacite]

Re: Are you a Vita Gamechanger?

Would be nice if you kept access to the free games you can download with Plus even if your service runs out - you know, to thank us for our patronage?

I still very much like the idea of PS Plus, I just personally haven't seen enough incentive to warrant it when I already pay for XBL and FFXIV.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Are you a Vita Gamechanger?

Sony: PS Vita sales a little behind, price was a hurdle - Destructoid

My god... this is what people have been saying since launch - needs more games, the price of the unit is a problem.

They had to do research to figure out those first two things, but still refuse to acknowledge memory prices are also prohibitive. Maybe the researchers just haven't turned up that little factual nugget yet.

Nintendo's problem seem to be on the marketing side, Sony's problem seems to be more about the ineptitude of higher-ups.

[Malacite]

Re: Are you a Vita Gamechanger?

Sony: PS Vita sales a little behind, price was a hurdle - Destructoid

My god... this is what people have been saying since launch - needs more games, the price of the unit is a problem.

They had to do research to figure out those first two things, but still refuse to acknowledge memory prices are also prohibitive. Maybe the researchers just haven't turned up that little factual nugget yet.

Nintendo's problem seem to be on the marketing side, Sony's problem seems to be more about the ineptitude of higher-ups.

Either that or the guys at Sony are just so hellbent on trying to stem the bleeding (they are still losing money every quarter like crazy) that they can't see the forest for the trees?