Nintendo Direct - Shin Megami Tenset X Fire Emblem

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Nintendo Direct - Shin Megami Tenset X Fire Emblem

I think its in part to get more content out more quickly, but honestly, I'm fine with it being very niche if it means more steady content. As small as Pokemon Conquest was, it was received rather well and sold out fast. It was an interesting game and far more palatable than Nobunaga's Ambition has ever been.

I think we all know Nintendo is going to fall behind on standard third party support in the long run, but if they can keep up interesting collaborations like this they might grab a few more interesting exclusives here or there from those studios. Additionally, it would give Nintendo something different to offer. I hope it isn't always just crossovers, but for now I'm fine with the idea so long as these collaborations continue.

The real question about the game for me is this - Altus is really ballsy with the challenges SMT games pose, but are they strong enough to keep FE's permadeath as a factor in this game. The idea of Hama and Mudo spells existing next to permadeath is both terrifying and exciting.

EDIT: Also - Index Corp. went on record to say this is indeed a collaboration between Atlus and Intelligent Systems and will be an RPG. They didn't specify strategy RPG or not, but I still think that's a safe assumption considering Intelligent Systems is involved. I actually rather like the pairing, too, because I think these are two teams that could learn quite a bit from each other. They both also love to blend 2D and 3D elements in their games, which is peculiar to some, but actually helps the gameplay flow quickly.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Nintendo Direct - Shin Megami Tenset X Fire Emblem

As someone who's not played games from either franchise before, I'd question the wisdom of starting here.

Not that I wouldn't be tempted. I keep hearing good things about both series. (Is "series" its own plural?)

[Firewind]

Re: Nintendo Direct - Shin Megami Tenset X Fire Emblem

It is its own plural.

And if you liked Pokemon then you will like the SMT games. It was probably the first "mons" game that really became popular.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Nintendo Direct - Shin Megami Tenset X Fire Emblem

As someone who's not played games from either franchise before, I'd question the wisdom of starting here.

Not that I wouldn't be tempted. I keep hearing good things about both series. (Is "series" its own plural?)

When it doubt "franchises" works.

Its best to take any SMT or FE game on its own story rather thank worry about continuity. As you play more of either, you'll eventually start to see how one connects to the others.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Nintendo Direct - Shin Megami Tenset X Fire Emblem

What's a good game to start with either, I guess is what I should ask. I was looking at Shadow Dragon and Strange Journey for me DS, but never got around to buying them. Thoughts?

[Firewind]

Re: Nintendo Direct - Shin Megami Tenset X Fire Emblem

Well there is one fan theory that all the SMT games including the spin offs like Persona are all set in the same Universe. Knowing the setting, that really wouldn't surprise me if it was true.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Nintendo Direct - Shin Megami Tenset X Fire Emblem

Well there is one fan theory that all the SMT games including the spin offs like Persona are all set in the same Universe. Knowing the setting, that really wouldn't surprise me if it was true.

Buh? I'd think this would be the default assumption, unless otherwise stated. o.O;

[Armando]

Re: Nintendo Direct - Shin Megami Tenset X Fire Emblem

What's a good game to start with either, I guess is what I should ask. I was looking at Shadow Dragon and Strange Journey for me DS, but never got around to buying them. Thoughts?

Not sure how Shadow Dragon compares, but Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn (its sequel) had some welcome improvements over its GBA predecessors. Like I said, Path of Radiance isn't too hard, so it's a good game to start with. Sadly the furry races are kinda gimpy in that one, but they're totally awesome in Radiant Dawn.

If you want a pleasant Fire Emblem experience...
* Do NOT attempt to level every unit. Some of them suck. Others are given to you at too low a level that they'll ever catch up. EXP is a finite resource in this game, so ignore the shitty units and only use the good ones. It'll be a lot less frustrating that way and you were going to give the shitty units the boot anyway since eventually you get too many good units to choose from.
* Do NOT attack with the overpowered tier-2 character they give you at the beginning of both games. They're too high level to get EXP off of the mooks you'll be fighting. Remove their weapons and use them as meat shields - they won't be able to counter and kill your prey, and the AI will naturally ignore everyone else because they always prefer to hit units that can't hit back (usually archers at close range.)
* Use a strategy guide and check out the hidden characters, items, and Bonus EXP conditions for each level in advance. Trust me; I generally avoid strategy guides on the first playthrough but these games warrant it. You can totally ignore the playthrough advice and spoilers if you wish, but you definitely want to know how to get the Bonus EXP and whether or not the stage has any important missable items or characters. (Even with the spoilers it'll be hard, trust me.)

One last thing: The US version of Radiant Dawn renamed the difficulties to make them seem easier than they are. US Easy is Japanese Normal. US Normal is Japanese Hard. US Hard is Japanese masochist mode. Do NOT pick US Hard.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Nintendo Direct - Shin Megami Tenset X Fire Emblem

I actually don't want to start with Path of Radiance specifically because a two-game-long saga doesn't sound like something that's good to start with.

One last thing: The US version of Radiant Dawn renamed the difficulties to make them seem easier than they are. US Easy is Japanese Normal. US Normal is Japanese Hard. US Hard is Japanese masochist mode. Do NOT pick US Hard.

o_O Huh. That seems backwards from what I've come to expect.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Nintendo Direct - Shin Megami Tenset X Fire Emblem

What's a good game to start with either, I guess is what I should ask. I was looking at Shadow Dragon and Strange Journey for me DS, but never got around to buying them. Thoughts?

Shadow Dragon is a remake of the first Fire Emblem game and not a bad place to start, but Fire Emblem Awakening lands on 3DS Feb. 4th and the demo just feels so right. The tutorial isn't oppressive, the presentation is slick and the game feels like it moves a bit more quickly than other entries.

If GBA games are still an option for you, go with those, most people still love the original western release as it had a nice three-part campaign with great protagonists like Lyndis, Eliwood and Hector.

As for SMT, Strange Journey is unapologetically rigid. I'd personally recommend either Devil Survivor for the DS or Persona 4 on the PS2 as starters. While neither are directly related to main series SMT, they do a lot to teach you the ropes and vocabulary of the series. They're both heavy on visual novel presentation as well, whereas SMT in general favors a more subtle narrative and lets the environment set the mood (kinda like Ocarina of Time or Metroid Fusion in that respect, I guess you could say, some story but not in such excess like Persona).

I wouldn't recommend SMT Nocturne or Digital Devil Saga to anyone upfront, though, because like Strange Journey, games that are in or follow main series SMT design favor the old CRPG approach. Think Dragon Quest and Wizardry, old vector dungeon stuff. Damage panels, pitfalls, trap-rigged treasure boxes - that kind of thing. Basically, they want to kill you. If you have patience for, say, encounter rates in games like Ni No Kuni, Final Fantasy IX or Skies of Arcadia, maybe it these can be okay for you.

Still Persona 4 is a really good gateway entry, even though its outside the main series. Great story, too. Probably one of the few PS2 RPGs that people are still talking about years later. Its really, really good. The rest of the franchise tends to live in a darker place, but Persona 4 manages to balance its serious side with refreshing optimism as well. The kids in the game actually end up feeling rather real to you and they're written rather progressively.

If you go with Devil Survivor, I offer one warning - while more accessible than other entries DO NOT try to build jack-of-all trades characters. Specialize each unit and build teams to cover each other's weaknesses instead. This game can get harsh when you get closer and closer to endgame and there are some bastardy status ailments and attacks. While its lighter on SRPG elemenst than Final Fantasy Tactics or even Disgaea, it expects you to know and take advantage of positioning. Movement skills and attacks that have greater reach are something to want here.

Skills are customizable, but have limited slots like Pokemon. Persona and SMT tend to favor eight slots, but Devil Survivor loves to stick you with six per unit. Three active skills, three passive traits. This is why building a jack-of-all trades is suicide. Basically, think Pokemon in respect to building teams. Thankfully, human characters are forced to draw from the same pool of skills and they can't be shared once selected, so it forces you to think in this direction. Still, lots of people are sent packing because they ignore this fact and try to cover all the bases on human unites with different tiers of a similar skill.

TL:DR - Flay GBA Fire Emblem or Persona 4 (PS2) first. Easily the most accessible entries.

Well there is one fan theory that all the SMT games including the spin offs like Persona are all set in the same Universe. Knowing the setting, that really wouldn't surprise me if it was true.

Nocturne debunks this. SMT is a multiverse and it more or less flows like this, at least commonly in fan theory.

SMT <> SMT If... > SMT IMAGINE Online > SMT II

Devil Summoner (PS2) > Devil Summoner 2 > Devil Summoner (Saturn) > SMT III Nocturne ; if Neutral Ending) > Soul Hackers, if Yousuga ending > Digital Devil Saga, If True Demon ending > ???

SMT IV and Strange Journey are unknowns right now, but both look like they could slip into the first universe's timeline, as SMT IV already hints at some imagery from SMT SJ and SMT/SMT II

"SMT If..." can potentially lead to the creation of the Persona universe and its inhabitants. This universe branches after the events of Innocent Sin. More or less two gods make a bet and the good one, Philemon, feels guilty and creates and alternate reality where those affected by his meddling are allowed to live and he withdraws from both universes, granting people the power of Persona through his agents as needed.

Devil Survivor is in its own universe, so is Devil Survivor 2. Cataclysmic events hit Tokyo but DS2 seems to have no memory of the other, so they're assumed to be separate.

The only common point - barring Persona - is that Lucifer and the forces of Law are the only factors that trancend the multiverse. They maintain a certain level of continuity, but its all rather biblical when you look at it. Lucifer is going to try to portray himself as a hero and an advocate of freedom. YHVH is more or less the God of the Old Testament on steroids, meaning he has a nasty mean, controlling streak. This can be a controversial point for Christians and Mormons, perhaps, but just know he also acts like the New Testament never happened and he's a bit extreme even if you're Jewish or Muslim (though radical Islam might find a creepy appreciation for this take on him).

Demi Kids is also its own universe.

There are some variations between fan theory, but that's the one that feels right to me so far. Nocturne's endings ia real wild card, many fans believe True Demon to be canon, but nine years later Atlus hasn't really followed up on that outcome at all.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Nintendo Direct - Shin Megami Tenset X Fire Emblem

Yeah, if you have an extensive team of characters (enough to cover all of your bases multiple times over), that's where specialization begins to shine. I'll still keep that in mind about Devil Survivor, as I unfortunately lack a PS2.

I do still technically have a GBA, though I question how many GBA games are still functional at this point, since I know several of them have some internal battery thing going on for their save files. My save files in my old copy of FF I+II Dawn of Souls are pretty much borked as of the last time I checked them (which was at least a month or so ago), for example.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Nintendo Direct - Shin Megami Tenset X Fire Emblem

I wouldn't put too much stock into that. Dawn of Souls was probably a fluke.

Battery based NES and Genesis carts are only just now starting to crap out. Someone would have had to be really abusive of played their GBA games extensively to have worn them and their batteries out to the point they wouldn't work today. Five years was the estimated battery life, but it turns out you can still find many functional classic Zelda cartridges out there. Its all a matter of how well they were preserved.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Nintendo Direct - Shin Megami Tenset X Fire Emblem

Not from a Direct, but still good news:

Nintendo to help Japanese companies bring their 3DS games West - JoyStiq

Nintendo publishing more games for others is always a good thing. As the article says, though we're likely safe from crap like Senran Kagura.

[Icemage]

Re: Nintendo Direct - Shin Megami Tenset X Fire Emblem

Nintendo publishing more games for others is always a good thing. As the article says, though we're likely safe from crap like Senran Kagura.

I'll believe this when I see it, or has anyone forgotten that it took Operation Rainfall to convince Nintendo that bringing actually good Wii games outside of Japan would be a profitable venture?


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Nintendo Direct - Shin Megami Tenset X Fire Emblem

I'll believe this when I see it, or has anyone forgotten that it took Operation Rainfall to convince Nintendo that bringing actually good Wii games outside of Japan would be a profitable venture?

So partnerships with Platinum Games, Sega, Namco, Level 5, Capcom, Atlus, XSEED and more - along with worldwide game announcements IN ENGLISH and you can't see where the wind is blowing?

Wow. Just wow.

Do you need them to shuffle their feet, cast their eyes down and fumble through an admission of failure like SCEA did after Namco bought up the rights to the Souls series? Would have that been more satisfactory for you? Personally, I just prefer action and it seems Nintendo is taking it now.

What I really see happening here is Nintendo collaborating, scouting for talent and restructuring studios for a post-Miyamoto Nintendo. The guy might stick it out for the Wii U generation, but of late Nintendo has been seeing to it they have more developer faces out there than just his, which is essentially the whole point of Iwata Asks, which is also being extended to third parties like Platinum games now. Iwata - unlike the CEOs of Sony and MS, has been in the trenches as a game developer himself - and his motive seems to be cultivating talent right now. I think its a wise strategy.