These videos might explain why group co-op shooters are so popular, and so adaptable

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: These videos might explain why group co-op shooters are so popular, and so adapta

Lucasfilm evil and Disney evil are pretty low-scale evil for Hollywood (well aggressive copyright lobbying notwithstanding).

They've mostly dug Marvel out of the hole it got itself into - still not quite where it should be on the comic front, but much better off with the movies they do now. Muppets are kinda iffy, but they've been off the radar so long that the property has little relevance to kids today.

But would Disney adhere to Lucas' crazy wishes to not turn back the clock to pre-special edition Star Wars and re-release the old versions? Not when there's money to be made.

[Icemage]

Re: These videos might explain why group co-op shooters are so popular, and so adapta

For the record, I refuse to buy any version of Star Wars where Han doesn't shoot first. Lucas can take his crazy wishes and go fishing with them, especially as he's proven that he has the screenwriting skill equivalent of about 10 monkeys with typewriters (seriously, did anyone NOT laugh when Count Dooku was introduced?).

Disney's not always the best, but they at least know how to put a story together sometimes (see: Pixar, and most animated Disney films not called Pocahontas).


Icemage

[Firewind]

Re: These videos might explain why group co-op shooters are so popular, and so adapta

The fact that George Lucas didn't actually meddle (much) with the Star Wars: The Clone Wars cartoon, and the fact that he had an entire writing team to give him feedback when he did step in for some episodes, is why it actually turned out to be pretty good overall. Anakin actually gets fleshed out and developed and the voice actors actually have some proper direction. A lot of bad decisions in the show were actually down to Dave Filoni.

The bits where Lucas did interfere actually back up my theory that George Lucas works best with a writing team around to tell him "No that's a bad idea" or do things to actually make his ideas work and make sense; contract the Prequel Trilogy and A New Hope where he was the only writer and yeah... The character of Cad Bane, just about everything about Mandalore (which thankfully retconned everything Karen Travis wrote and turned the MartyStulorians back from Boring Invincible Heroes/Villains to something more believable and likable), bringing back Darth Maul and expanding on the Dathomir Zabrak were Lucas' ideas and resulted in some of the best arcs in the series because he had a team to help him out.

[Armando]

Re: These videos might explain why group co-op shooters are so popular, and so adapta

Altering somebody's work doesn't create new work, nor does it show that you appreciated the original, but that you simply have no respect for the author or their efforts.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. If you've gotten someone to care enough about your game to hack it, you've succeeded as a designer.

Good programmers might have great technical ideas, but an engine itself isn't a game.

An engine's not a game, but a good programmer has the means to make one. No one gets a game right the first time; when the feedback comes that X and Y were bad ideas, the good programmer can change it. Besides, game design requires a technically-inclined mindset; to produce fun you must understand what makes something fun.

There is no part of programming that is conducive to writing good books. It's not even conducive to writing good programming books, because being good at something isn't enough to be a good teacher. Writing a technical book is also time-consuming and expensive as hell.

[Raydeus]

Re: These videos might explain why group co-op shooters are so popular, and so adapta

For the record, I refuse to buy any version of Star Wars where Han doesn't shoot first.

In Disney's version instead of shooting he will start singing and dueling Greedo using rapier while Pirates also sing in the background.

[Aeni]

Re: These videos might explain why group co-op shooters are so popular, and so adapta

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

One word: Zynga

There is no part of programming that is conducive to writing good books. It's not even conducive to writing good programming books, because being good at something isn't enough to be a good teacher. Writing a technical book is also time-consuming and expensive as hell.

The video game industry is plagued with terrible writing. The problem is that small teams do not have the budget to take on employees who are too specialized in a narrow field and are not adept at anything else. That's the problem with indie games. You've got people trying to be all things to as many people and the whole affair crumbles quicker than a tower of playing cards (or in some cases, the game never gets released after decades of empty promises)

As long as indie developers focus on the kitschy-ness of their works, then there will always be a market for them. To suggest that somehow indie developers can outwit large development houses at their own game is both an insult to gamers at large and to just basic intelligence and common sense.

[Armando]

Re: These videos might explain why group co-op shooters are so popular, and so adapta

One word: Zynga

That's plagiarism; hardly the same as imitation. The difference is a lawsuit and having no dignity.

The video game industry is plagued with terrible writing.

Fortunately, not all games need writing in the first place. E.g. World of Goo, Super Hexagon, most platformers.

To suggest that somehow indie developers can outwit large development houses at their own game is both an insult to gamers at large and to just basic intelligence and common sense.

When did anyone suggest that?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: These videos might explain why group co-op shooters are so popular, and so adapta

Indies aren't outwitting big developers, but they are providing content and value that brings the content and value of big-budget AAA games into question and they're doing it without needing the best graphics or at the very least not having to follow the traditional business models. Hell, with Kickstarter and sites like it out there, developers and their audiences no longer have to wait for a big publishers permission to have the kinds of games they want to make or play.

This means a studio like Obsidian doesn't have to be dicked out of their bonus by Zenimax for not getting an 85 average on Metacritic (they got 84). It means developers don't have to go to EA, Sony or others with hat-in-hand asking for their games to be greenlit in exchange for surrendering their IP.

eShop - especially in the west - may prove to Nintendo that they are going to have to shape up on their digital retail releases along with their retail releases in terms of price. Its great they're giving indies so much liberty on the Wii U, but I hope they're paying attention and not assuming they can't have eShop sales on retail games forever. I don't know about Japan, but then, the DLC for NSMB2 and Fire Emblem Awakening went over quite well over there - which is interesting since Japan is generally allergic to digital and DLC. I hope Nintendo of Japan takes note of that and the response to games like Pushmo and Crashmo, which are great deals for their price. So far Intelligent Systems is bringing the best dollar value for content, so I'm hoping they lead the charge for Nintendo on digital content.

Things are changing and while the biggest publishers out there pretend to be with it, they're really clinging to the old ways as much as they can. Its no different than when the music industry was forced to change. They witchhunted Napster and other filesharing sites and once they beat them down, Apple created a new model and they had to go along with it. This is how it happens just about every time First music, the movies and TV and now games. Try as you might, but you can't fight the future.

[Aeni]

Re: These videos might explain why group co-op shooters are so popular, and so adapta

That's plagiarism; hardly the same as imitation.

You responded to Dak's post re: his position on taking another person's work and redoing it, and then selling it. This is what Zynga does on a daily basis. If it was clearly wrong, they wouldn't be able to continue doing so, so obviously the law is on their side ... for now.

When did anyone suggest that?

It's all over and not just in this thread. Let's face reality. What percentage of small cells developing games will meet with any success? 5%? Less? Now, let's count how many of them are out there. There are thousands, if not, tens of thousands of such "indie" or "small studios" all over the world creating games of every stripe, color and fetish. I'm willing to bet that even the most obsessed gamer out there, BBQ or whoever, would not even begin to scratch the surface of all that there is in the world today.

So, how do people, like FFXIOers on these forums, play these games? Simply put, it's the one that gets the most attention, through either marketing, word of mouth, or anticipation through other media. You're not going to get this with most "indie" or "small studios".

It gets worse with apps for mobile devices. Most people, and rightly so, will only focus their time and effort and stuff that gets the most hits, downloads or airwaves.

Again, not saying there won't be successful titles coming out from the "small guys", but you have to admit, they have a huge mountain to overcome.

[Firewind]

Re: These videos might explain why group co-op shooters are so popular, and so adapta

The video game industry is plagued with terrible writing. The problem is that small teams do not have the budget to take on employees who are too specialized in a narrow field and are not adept at anything else. That's the problem with indie games. You've got people trying to be all things to as many people and the whole affair crumbles quicker than a tower of playing cards (or in some cases, the game never gets released after decades of empty promises)

As long as indie developers focus on the kitschy-ness of their works, then there will always be a market for them. To suggest that somehow indie developers can outwit large development houses at their own game is both an insult to gamers at large and to just basic intelligence and common sense.

[Armando]

Re: These videos might explain why group co-op shooters are so popular, and so adapta

You responded to Dak's post re: his position on taking another person's work and redoing it, and then selling it.

No one ever said anything about selling; only modding/fanfiction/fangames.

[Aeni]

Re: These videos might explain why group co-op shooters are so popular, and so adapta

No one ever said anything about selling; only modding/fanfiction/fangames.

Same deal. Look at League of Legends ... granted, you're not paying for anything (well, it WAS free last time I played a couple of years ago) but then again, you are ... they acquire data and resell to their 3rd party partners. Yes, there's this legal thing that they put up assuring you that nothing of the sort goes on, but read the legal document thoroughly and carefully ... there's plenty of ways to do that without blatantly handing over the data to someone.

And let's not forget that not every modder out there do these things for love. Last I checked, majority of the top 25 mod sites for blockbuster titles were plagued with trojans/malware.

[Armando]

Re: These videos might explain why group co-op shooters are so popular, and so adapta

Same deal.

Are you equating what Zynga does with, say, how Castlevania remixed Super Metroid? Because they're obviously different things. That's a straw man if I've ever seen one.

DotA was a separate game in its own right. Obviously you couldn't sell it as long as you were piggybacking on the Warcraft engine, but once someone rewrites it from scratch, it's fair game. That's nothing new; it's also how Team Fortress came about.

[Aeni]

Re: These videos might explain why group co-op shooters are so popular, and so adapta

Are you equating what Zynga does with, say, how Castlevania remixed Super Metroid? Because they're obviously different things. That's a straw man if I've ever seen one.

I'm not talking about AAA publishers. I'm talking about the vast majority of "small business/solo devs" out there, or what the media label them as "indie". You bringing up contracted, official rebranded release/re-releases of important IP really goes to my point about how the big players will always be there and will always be the lynchpin of the industry. Maybe you don't share the same views as BBQ, since he's one of the bigger critics of the industry, but I can never tell...

[Armando]

Re: These videos might explain why group co-op shooters are so popular, and so adapta

I'm not talking about AAA publishers. I'm talking about the vast majority of "small business/solo devs" out there, or what the media label them as "indie".

I don't even know what we're arguing about any more. I'm talking about the merits of remix culture (fanfiction, fan movies, fan games, modding) and improving upon existing works, but you've been talking about how indie devs can in no way "beat" mainstream devs.

Like I said earlier, I don't think anyone's trying to argue that indie devs are going to put the big players out of business or make more money than them. But they have the freedom to make games that big publishers wouldn't fund, and the advent of social networking, Steam, and app stores have made it possible for indie devs to make their games known. Success stories like Minecraft or Super Meat Boy didn't happen 10 years ago. Cave Story was released 8 years ago and it wasn't until 2010 that it got enough traction to make it to WiiWare.