Wii U Discussion

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Wii U Discussion

Well, as they pointed out at GT, EA was surprisingly absent from the Sony event, which means they've no doubt got something major for E3 - Probably BF4 and quite possibly the next Mass Effect. They're not the #1 publisher in the business for nothing. Plus I'm sure Activision can't wait to show off at least a preview of the new CoD. Not that I care particularly for that, I just wanted to make a few important observations with regards to that franchise.

I doubt the next ME will be shown when Casey Hudson was all "prequel or sequel" a couple months ago. If anything it will be DA3 Inquisition. If EA, UbiSoft and Activision want to show how boring they are they can show off the new Madden, BF4, Assassin's Creeed, Spiderman, CoD and other IPs that have been annually or semi-annually run into the ground, that's fine - but don't pretend its exciting. This is all shit we knew was coming and we know where its going.

Even a 3D Mario game can be a bigger shake-up by contrast.

What gets me, though, is it was the likes of Ubisoft telling us that new hardware was needed so new IPs could be created and outside of Watch Dogs - which seems to be scaled for current gen - where are those new IPs? I don't see them.

A lot of people were saying that there's no way that demo of Deep-Down was gameplay, but I think it was for 1 reason - it looked like you had some kind of menu in the lower left with those 3 icons. Either way it was an impressive demo.

It looks cool, but when has Capcom ever been a graphical powerhouse studio? I doubt whatever comes of Deep Down will end up looking as good as that did, at least where particle effects are concerned.

[Malacite]

Re: Wii U Discussion

New BF is always exciting, especially if it finally bridges the gap between PC and Console versions. Going up from 24 to 64 player battles is a pretty big deal (BF4 is slated for 2014 btw. EA canned MoH for good and hasn't announced any plans to replace it or annualize BF which I'm grateful for). Also, just because you're not a fan of <insert series here> doesn't mean it won't be exciting to others. I'm all for new IPs (it's why I adore Sony) but you're being entirely too dismissive.

[Armando]

Re: Wii U Discussion

Action-RPG Cryamore headed to Wii U

Been keeping tabs on this one 'cuz I saw it on Kickstarter. Looks like a fun game. Action RPG with multiple weapons and overworld abilities for puzzle solving (think Golden Sun). Also has some Mega Man-inspired choose-the-next-stage thing going on (start out with 2 dungeons, then 4 after you beat 1, then another 4 after beating the first 4.)

[Icemage]

Re: Wii U Discussion

Action-RPG Cryamore headed to Wii U

Been keeping tabs on this one 'cuz I saw it on Kickstarter. Looks like a fun game. Action RPG with multiple weapons and overworld abilities for puzzle solving (think Golden Sun). Also has some Mega Man-inspired choose-the-next-stage thing going on (start out with 2 dungeons, then 4 after you beat 1, then another 4 after beating the first 4.)

I've seen that project before, but I'm worried about their unrealistic budget. We have Skullgirls doing a kickstarter for $150K to add one character to their fighting game, and these guys only budgeted $60K for their entire base project? Something doesn't add up there.


Icemage

[Armando]

Re: Wii U Discussion

I've seen that project before, but I'm worried about their unrealistic budget. We have Skullgirls doing a kickstarter for $150K to add one character to their fighting game, and these guys only budgeted $60K for their entire base project? Something doesn't add up there.

I don't know much about what kind of budget would be required for a game like this, but the $60k was the bare minimum. They had stretch goals at $76k for full voice acting, an extra dungeon at $83k and 90k, and four extra weapons at 95/100/105/110k. The stretch goals went up to $225k for console support. They ended up with $242k, so even if they underestimated the budget, that's four times what they wanted for the base game.

EDIT: Actually, they're still taking pledges for another 2 weeks on Paypal, so that $242k isn't the final amount. $15 gets you a digital copy of the game. Even if they flop, it's not that big of an investment to lose.

[Icemage]

Re: Wii U Discussion

I don't worry about whether or not it will sell. I worry about Kickstarters that literally run out of money before they finish because the people running the project grossly underestimated the costs involved. For instance, 225K for multi-console support means not only buying dev kits for all of the pertinent consoles (non-trivial cost), but paying for first-party certification (also non-trivial). And that's assuming you make it clean through 1st party certification the first time and no one finds any showstopper bugs which tie up your release and force you to resubmit.

I do hope they get everything up and running, but 4 versions running on vastly different hardware and working with 4 different certification processes (Steam Greenlight, Microsoft Xbox Live Arcade, Sony PSN, Wii U eShop) seems like a big mouthful to chew for such a small team.


Icemage

[Armando]

Re: Wii U Discussion

Well, they're using Unity as their framework. How good is Unity at porting to all the different platforms?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Wii U Discussion

I do hope they get everything up and running, but 4 versions running on vastly different hardware and working with 4 different certification processes (Steam Greenlight, Microsoft Xbox Live Arcade, Sony PSN, Wii U eShop) seems like a big mouthful to chew for such a small team.

I do wonder why some studios cast the net so broad when the certification/authentication process an be so costly, this particularly when Steam, Apple and Nintendo aren't charging indies for that now and MS and Sony are.

[Icemage]

Re: Wii U Discussion

Well, they're using Unity as their framework. How good is Unity at porting to all the different platforms?

Hard to say for sure, since there are only a handful of Unity-based multiplatform games.

Looking at the Wikipedia article for Unity, I recognize a handful of games that I own that use it. Escape Plan (Vita), Max and the Magic Marker (iOS, PC, PS3), Rochard (PC/PS3), and the upcoming projects for Wasteland 2 (PC) and Project Eternity (PC) all use Unity.

What's interesting is that I find almost no cases of Xbox 360 games using Unity. Even the official site for the engine only lists a single multiplatform Unity game that includes Xbox 360, Harold, and it's not out yet. Makes me wonder if there's something wrong with the Xbox version of Unity, or if Microsoft is just that much of a pain in the butt to work with that it doesn't even make sense to port already-created games to the platform.

In any case, I think the big wall for cross-platform development is still the requirement to buy dev kits and test the software, even with a putatively cross-platform engine like Unity.


Icemage

[Icemage]

Re: Wii U Discussion

Found this blog post linked from NeoGAF and it says a lot of harsh (but objectively true) things about Nintendo CEO Satoru Iwata, especially as his performance pertains to the development and rollout of the Wii U:

http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2013...stern-culture/

The blog post is far, far too long to adequately quote here, but it is extensively researched and backed with citations and figures.

A couple of notable excerpts:

For six years, Iwata and Miyamoto preached to us about how game controllers have become too complex with too many buttons, sticks, and gizmos. When you look at the Wii U GamePad, you feel like the last six years of Iwata and Miyamoto preaching about simplifying controllers never even happened.

...

We get to the Wii/DS era, and Iwata hits the jackpot between the years 2006 through 2009. That’s about four years of success. But here’s the question to ask yourself. What did Iwata do after Nintendo made boat loads of money? Where did Iwata invest that money?

If Iwata has been making wise (please emphasize the “wise”) investments, then why has Iwata complained so much about their resources/teams being under major pressure when developing games for 3DS and Wii U? If Iwata was making wise investments with that Wii/DS money in 2009 and 2010, we wouldn’t be complaining about a software drought for Wii U right now.

There's a ton of commentary about the Wii U hardware design, Nintendo's market performance, Nintendo of America/Europe being used as scapegoats, and quite a bit more in the above link. It's a worthwhile read, whether you agree with the premise or not.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: Wii U Discussion

Michael Pachter tore into him a bit too in last week's Pach Attack.

It's a bit of double-edged sword though; one the one hand, you got guys running Nintendo who were actually involved in making games and really care (but as Pachter points out, are also very set in their ways because they're old and those methods are what made them successful) but on the flip side the shareholders are *not* happy at all with Nintendo's performance - they've taken some pretty steep nose dives, most notably after 3DS launched.

Pachter was replying to a question about if and when Nintendo would ever get out of console market and do strictly software like SEGA has and honestly, I think they should. It's actually been a huge plus for SEGA (though they honestly should have sacked Sonic Team years ago... I don't get why they still haven't) and Nintendo could really clean up.

But then, aside from the initial awkwardness of seeing Mario on Xbox or Playstation, they might not like giving up some of the privileges they have now by having their own IPs on their own hardware.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Wii U Discussion

Nintendo will never "go the way of Sega" because Sega was in serious fiscal shit when it went under. Nintendo has ten billion dollars its sitting on and if we at least go by how they're developing games now -and they will always look to find the cheapest way - it would last them til about 2073 by last estimates. Seriously, the way some of these games are made are practically done on an indie level. Staffs of 30 or even 15 or less on their handheld stuff.

Seriously, when Sony is selling off property, when Square-Enix, Capcom and EA consider selling multi-millions a failure - Nintendo is the last company we need to be worried about. If anything, they're proving Nintendo, Atlus and a number of smaller studios and indies right - the AAA model is no longer sustainable the way its being done now. You can speak ill of Activision all you want and, hell, maybe they'll go down with the toxic environment they've created - but big publishers have all be trying to make their games the next Call of Duty like every MMO developer has been trying to make a WoW-killer without success.

Games have gone this route because investors see Activision's success and want that success. Investors will never blame themselves they're wrong, just finger the blame toward whoever is convenient. Do you think I/O and Crystal Dynamics are safe in the Eidos division of SE? Over seven million in combined sales between the latest Hitman and Tomb Raider games and they're blamed in part for a financial loss. Can we not see how genuinely fucked up this is?

And let's not forget the quiet shuttering of a number of Sony studios in the years before other sell-offs we're seeing now.

Things aren't well at EA, either, with John Riccitiello having stepped down after seeing the SimCity backlash, SWTOR fail big, DA2 being a total eyesore in terms of quality and the backlash over ME3. We know why these problems happened - lack of development time, bloated budgets and these contrived anti-consumer practices EA loves to adhere to.

I mean, SimCity doesn't even have a DRM now, according to EA its an MMO. Online Passes no longer exist, they're just "limited editions" now. This is just political wordsmithing at its finest now, there's no intellectual honesty in what EA does.

Right now I only see Capcom doing a serious reassessment of how they've been this gen. When Dragon's Dogma was a success and RE6 was a failure, they at least already had some forsight to have an HD port of RE Revelations. Its almost an admittance that they might have been wrong about RE6. Then you have their forthcoming digital efforts, they expansion of Dragon's Dogma and such. Ducktales Remastered, Tower of Doom re-release, Darkstalkers just recently. Of the companies I have been complaining about it at least seems that in the last year or so Capcom has started to listen.

Oh, and i forgot Sega... probably because no one gives a fuck what Sega does these days. They are that far off the radar. If anyone should even be remotely accused of cashing in on nostalgia for pure attention, its Sega because its only way they get any street cred with gamers now. That and whoring out Sonic for another terrible 3D game.

And this is the industry you want Nintendo to go third party in? You want Nintendo to be like Sega? Fuck that.

I think we need Nintendo as they are more than ever. Perpetuating the idea that they should go third party is as stupid in 2013 as it was in 2003.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Wii U Discussion

What, making gimmicky hardware that turns me off from purchasing any of their systems?

Nintendo might not need to go third party, but they could do with some change in focus.

[Armando]

Re: Wii U Discussion

I'm not sure what the hardware has to do with anything. I can understand Raydeus' dislike for Nintendo - he somehow dislikes all of their IPs, and without those then why would you even own a Nintendo console? But I don't care if the next Mario game has me tweaking a rubber nipple if the gameplay's good.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Wii U Discussion

And considering Mario Galaxy and Galaxy 2 brought the genre to new heights I'm ready to see what Nintendo has next for 3D Mario.