Wii U Discussion

[Kailea]

Re: Wii U Discussion

I like how the fact that CoD BO2 was a rushed poor port was just glossed over -.- and the fanboy card was just tossed around instead.

[Malacite]

Re: Wii U Discussion

citation on the "poor port" please?

And we all know BBQ is raging Nintendo fanboy, it's hardly a secret. Again, for the record, I don't hate Nintendo. I just haven't seen anything truly compelling from them since the N64, which is really depressing. There have been games here & there that I loved (like the Metroid Prime games & Twilight Princess) but as an overall platform, the last few consoles have just underwhelmed me horribly and I'm getting sick of being disappointed by them year after year, while Sony & MS keep churning out mega blockbusters and offer much better online functionality.

So excuse me if I seem a bit jaded. I know there are folks who are perfectly happy with Nintendo's stuff over the last decade and good for them - I don't begrudge your enjoyment. But don't try and sell me their snake oil 'cause I'm not buying it.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Wii U Discussion

"Fanboy" does tend to be a popular word in Nintendo, ahem, "discussions".

Just saying.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Wii U Discussion

So excuse me if I seem a bit jaded. I know there are folks who are perfectly happy with Nintendo's stuff over the last decade and good for them - I don't begrudge your enjoyment. But don't try and sell me their snake oil 'cause I'm not buying it.

The reason I'm most excited about the Wii U of late is the eShop is in a position to do a lot of good for indies. As someone that doesn't want to turn to Steam for every indie game if a traditional controller at the couch is preferable, I like that Nintendo's change is more in-line with Steam and iOS. Indies get to set their own prices, have their own sales on the storefront and Nintendo is not charging developers for patches.

This is something EVERY digital storefront needs to be doing. PSN doesn't do it, XBL doesn't either. Sony wants you to basically sell your soul and your IP exclusively to them and then they promise to waive patch fees. All those great games by Thatgamecompany? The people behind them won't see a dime after a point and that's sad because that was the deal. MS is especially nasty with their $40k patch/authentication fees for developers

Its so bad Capcom resorts to on-disc DLC to have it authenticated on the first go on both platforms rather than get whammied with it later, Its also why developers sign on for exclusive DLC (such as Skyrim's) to avoid the fees. If you're an indie like Phil Fish - creator of Fez - you may never be able to afford to patch your own game.

I've wanted to get Fez because its a nice, clever game. It just happens to have a killer bug that could easily be fixed if Steve Ballmer had a soul.

[Kailea]

Re: Wii U Discussion

citation on the "poor port" please?

there is no citation needed, I can see it myself -.- Teeken Tag runs fine, Assassin's Creed III runs fine, Mass Effect 3, again runs fine, CoD BO2, does not.

[Icemage]

Re: Wii U Discussion

If we've not heard anything about the next Xbox or Playstation by now, I can't be sure there will be new iterations this time next year.

The Xbox 360 was announced about 5 months before it was released, at E3. The fact that 3rd party developers are already working on next generation hardware is the worst-kept secret in gaming, so my past prediction of holiday 2013 looks to be spot-on accurate for the release of at least one, if not both, machines for Microsoft and Sony.

Additionally, a lot rides on their ability to carry over those networks, digital content, achievements and such into the new consoles and upgraded networks seamlessly. Sony is looking to fall on their swords again in regards to BC and MS might keep compatibility.

Achievements already cross over between Windows 8 and Xbox 360, so I doubt Microsoft has any issues on that front. Trophies work seamlessly now between PS3 and Vita, so that's a non-issue as well.

Backward compatibility is probably an issue for everyone at this point. Sony's probably got the biggest hurdle since they have the weirdest architecture, but they've probably benefited the most from this generation lasting longer than typical, as a more powerful processor can theoretically emulate the PS3 code (more or less); certainly in their shoes I would have been working on some form of emulation years ago - ditto goes for Microsoft. I suspect that Sony's purchase of Gaikai means that they're going to try for a cloud-based streaming service to sidestep hardware compatibility at some point, though I don't think the infrastructure is in place currently to adequately support such a technology.

If digital games like this gen's get left behind I'm going to have some serious problems with that.

We're already seeing some of that. Some of the Wii content doesn't transfer to the Wii U. Lost Winds for instance (which I happen to own on my Wii) is one of the known titles that refuses to make the digital transition. This is basically the backward compatibility problem all over again, minus the discs.

I also don't think Sony and MS will go head to head. They clearly wanted to see how Wii U hit the market this year, which is why I suppose they've not talked about their consoles yet. They probably won't launch against each other.

Why would you assume this? Microsoft had a huge advantage in launching first with the Xbox 360. The only reason it didn't work out better for them was because they rushed the hardware design with a fatal flaw (RRoD), but it took years and a ton of money and resources for Sony to catch up, while Nintendo just skated along on hype (and paid the price for THAT later in terms of developer abandonment). First to market means that more of your friends are likely to own the system, and the power of peer pressure can't be overstated.

But really, i think next gen might be it for the home console. Sony and MS's big holy grail has been to become the all-in-one entertainment centers of the living room and the advent of Smart TVs kinda fucks with that real hard. Its not an aspiration Nintendo has been as aggressive in perusing.

Xbox Live can't stay the way it is if it hopes to survive against Smart TVs. Gating content like Netflix behind a subscription fee would just be suicide. Its suicide now. I'm sure Sony will keep pushing BD, even though it won one war to lose another. Nintendo and Sony are in a better position to compete with Smart TVs just due to their online approach, but the Wii U can remove itself from the TV equation and PS3's way around that is spotty and expensive (i.e. Vita remote play).

Smart TVs are an evolutionary dead end, so I have no idea where you're going with this statement. People aren't going to be happy relearning how to use every function on their TV every time they upgrade (any more than they're happy trying to relearn everything when they buy a new phone). Adding more fringe features to TVs, especially when said features are implemented in totally different ways by different manufacturers, is a non-starter for the commercial market.

Dedicated home consoles are more threatened by the increasing power of tablets, in the same sense that dedicated handhelds are threatened by smart phones. It won't eliminate the market completely, but it probably will shrink the market.

As for the Vita -> PS3 remote play, the PS3 is the bottleneck there. As soon as the PS4 (or whatever it's called) gets released, I expect Sony to come out with a firmware update for the Vita which greatly streamlines the Remote Play function.

PC gaming seems safe, but MS seems to think they can shut down other services by not offering Windows 7 Direct X11. If MS wants to go to war with Steam and Origin, its their funeral. No one likes Windows 8 or Surface.

Agreed. Microsoft is trying to pull another Games For Windows Live maneuver with Win8, and no one is buying their BS this time.

All in all, I think Nintendo was right to get the Wii U out now as the future looks really hazy for consoles.

Incorrect. Nintendo should have released the Wii U two to three years ago. That would have been a much smarter move instead of sitting on that pile of cash they had. Granted, releasing it now is certainly better than releasing it next year, but this is something they should have done a long time ago.


Icemage

[Feba]

Re: Wii U Discussion

->bitching about the frame rate
->blaming the CPU

Yeah, this guy knows what he's talkin' 'bout!

I've got no horse in this race; I'm probably not buying any consoles this generation, but this guy's criticisms are silly, to say the least.

On the more broad subject of the Wii U being too weak, that's what everyone said about the Wii as well. Nintendo, their shareholder, and the industry don't really give a fuck.

[Firewind]

Re: Wii U Discussion

I tend to follow my personal rule with new console releases:

Never buy a console until a year after release.

Why? It allows time for hardware issues to be ironed out and software I am actually interested in to be released. It also lets me see what the competition is coming up with.

I broke that rule with the 3DS and was highly disappointed with the console because of it. Even today I play far more DS games than 3DS games on it and the only 3DS game I still own on it is Harvest Moon Tale of Two Towns (but it's the DS version because there is literally no difference between the two versions). We might be getting Devil Survivor Overclocked some time next year but it's an Atlus game, the only time you can ever play a region locked Atlus game in Europe without having to wait for several years after release is to pirate it, then pray it might eventually come out.

Anyway, fanboy flailing about technical specifications aside, I have no plans to buy a Wii U until next year. While there are games coming out for it that I do like, I would just rather play the wait and see game with the next generation of consoles, especially since console gaming at the moment is really failing to hold my interest, especially compared to what Steam and iOS (for handheld gaming) is offering in the Indie market.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Wii U Discussion

Smart TVs are an evolutionary dead end, so I have no idea where you're going with this statement. People aren't going to be happy relearning how to use every function on their TV every time they upgrade (any more than they're happy trying to relearn everything when they buy a new phone). Adding more fringe features to TVs, especially when said features are implemented in totally different ways by different manufacturers, is a non-starter for the commercial market.

I'm just gonna focus on this since I've heard you argued some of the rest before.

You have no idea where I'm going with smart TVs and yet you go on to point out tablets, which pose the same exact threat. I know you like the play the "general populace is dumb" card in these discussions, but half the planet owns a smartphone now and the world does not implode when an iOS or Android update comes along (Apple Maps notwithstanding).

Having Netflix and Hulu pre-programmed into the TV is a non-starter? A TV that's already got apps in it and games, along with everything else that does, is a threat I would not underestimate. There was a time when we all believed arcades would be around forever because many coin-op machines had an edge over consoles in terms of power and then one day consoles outpaced them. There was a time when PCs were the same way to consoles, then the new wave of consoles came along to bring that into question each time.

Now there's market where graphics and horsepower are sometimes the least valued things in games - particularly with the PC, tablet and smartphone. All it took was more people having access to the internet and services like Steam and iOS to have a boom in the indie development community and now things in the gaming industry are really starting to change.

The threat is real. The storm is coming. Sony and MS would not be offering up their anemic versions of smartphones and tablets were this not the case. Sony and MS both took nearly five year to muster a proper response to what Apple and Samsung are now dominating. Nintendo, as always, plays the outisider and by their own rules, but if Wii U and 3DS are any indication, they know where the wind is blowing or the Wii U wouldn't be able to remove itself from the TV equation.

Sony and MS are going to go butt heads with Smart TVs while Nintendo knows it likely something they might not be able to compete with.

[Kailea]

Re: Wii U Discussion

I tend to follow my personal rule with new console releases:

Never buy a console until a year after release.

Why? It allows time for hardware issues to be ironed out and software I am actually interested in to be released. It also lets me see what the competition is coming up with.

I broke that rule with the 3DS and was highly disappointed with the console because of it. Even today I play far more DS games than 3DS games on it and the only 3DS game I still own on it is Harvest Moon Tale of Two Towns (but it's the DS version because there is literally no difference between the two versions). We might be getting Devil Survivor Overclocked some time next year but it's an Atlus game, the only time you can ever play a region locked Atlus game in Europe without having to wait for several years after release is to pirate it, then pray it might eventually come out.

Anyway, fanboy flailing about technical specifications aside, I have no plans to buy a Wii U until next year. While there are games coming out for it that I do like, I would just rather play the wait and see game with the next generation of consoles, especially since console gaming at the moment is really failing to hold my interest, especially compared to what Steam and iOS (for handheld gaming) is offering in the Indie market.

I have a similar policy, but I make exceptions for Nintendo stuff, ever since the SNES Nintendo has been day one buys for me, though I will admit after the 3DS they where getting one last chance on the Wii U with me, they are lucky they did not disappoint ;p

[Firewind]

Re: Wii U Discussion

Sony and MS are going to go butt heads with Smart TVs while Nintendo knows it likely something they might not be able to compete with.

Actually it's more likely to be Sony and Samsung that are butting heads over it (unless Microsoft are suddenly making TVs now) for the top end of the Smart TV market. That said, one thing that Smart TVs will have to do is actually show us what they can offer that a console can't. It would be interesting to see how that can be handled given that at this moment in time, there really isn't anything a Smart TV can do for me that a Digital/Freeview TV + PS3 won't already do for me besides costing more money.

[Icemage]

Re: Wii U Discussion

at this moment in time, there really isn't anything a Smart TV can do for me that a Digital/Freeview TV + PS3 won't already do for me besides costing more money.

Exactly.

Tablets are a threat because they offer portability as well as usefulness. Smart TVs, on the other hand, are stationary just like a traditional home console, and offer less functionality than a standard set-top box with a higher price premium.

For that matter, the Ouya is going to be an interesting case study, as it straddles that line between a traditional console and a tablet; it's portable (about the size of a Rubik's Cube) but lets you use a traditional controller. Whether it can offer enough compelling experiences with nothing more than a Tegra 3 chip, on the other hand, is an open question.


Icemage

[Armando]

Re: Wii U Discussion

A TV that's already got apps in it and games, along with everything else that does, is a threat I would not underestimate.

Having Netflix on a console gives added value but it's not THE reason to buy a console. This is the smartphone thing all over again. At the end of the day if you really want to play a console-exclusive game you'll need that console, and you're totally not gonna settle for playing Minesweeper on your TV.

As for me, get all that crap out of my fucking TV. I just want a big-ass monitor with no input lag.

[Firewind]

Re: Wii U Discussion

It does depend on the games though. A Sony BRAVIA TV with the ability to play Uncharted would be very cool. It probably won't happen but eh, as long as the games are fun it could be interesting. Sometimes the simplest games are the most fun.

[Armando]

Re: Wii U Discussion

A Sony BRAVIA TV with the ability to play Uncharted would be very cool.

Problem is, to do that you've stopped making a Smart TV and you've turned it into an All-in-One PC.