Do you think PS All Stars is judged harshly, mew?

[Etra]

Re: Do you think PS All Stars is judged harshly, mew?

I gotta say this is the most boring flame war I've seen in a while. XD

I didn't realize we were flaming? Well, I did shoot a spark at BBQ, but that's because no one likes him.

- - - Updated - - -

But it's moot anyways - all of the clones performed very differently from their counterparts even if the moves looked similar on the surface.

I wouldn't call a 20% increase in speed and decrease in strength "very different."

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Do you think PS All Stars is judged harshly, mew?

I gotta say this is the most boring flame war I've seen in a while. XD

Well considering Etra lives on Bullshit Mountain and isn't even a clever troll, you just say your piece and accept no matter what you say you won't be listened to. Even when facts and experience are provided. I contrasted my experiences with games that actually interest me because I know Armando and YM were the bigger SSB buffs.

A lot of fanboys defend PSABR on the fear of it being compared to SSB, but even Superbot admits it was thier inspiration. My problem is that this game fails to celebrate Playstation on Playstation's terms. Over 15 years and five gaming platforms and we get this.

Sonic's new kart racer is more inspired than this, certainly better than Mario Kart 7 which plays it too safe and familiar.

[Icemage]

Re: Do you think PS All Stars is judged harshly, mew?

Let me chime in here and say I do own PS Battle Royale. I took it over to a party on Thanksgiving, and it was a pretty big hit.

It's in the same genre as Smash Brothers, but it doesn't really play at all like Smash does, any more than Mortal Kombat 9 plays like Street Fighter II. The KO mechanic is very different, the level hazards are different, the move sets are different.

+ The large number of unique moves for each character means that no character is completely one-sided or a one-trick pony, with maaaybe the exception of Colonel Radec. Every character seems to have strengths and weaknesses, but they all have a fairly large toolbox to work with in terms of basic moves.

+ The physics are a lot more sensible than Smash Brothers Brawl.

+ Online play doesn't suck like Brawl's loltastic effort, though it's still glitchy (hopefully fixable via patch and/or server-side fixes).

+ Items are strong but not rock-stupidly good like Brawl/Melee.

+ No stupid Final Smash mechanic.

+ No stupidly overpowered character (Metaknight).

- Some of the level 3 super moves are bland and terrible (looking at you Parappa and Kuro). Some are too good (Sackboy). All of the level 3's feel a bit tacked-on and unpolished, and require little or no skill to use, though honestly you can probably get more mileage out of lower level supers in any case.

- Not being able to choose a lower rank of super move is a huge missed opportunity.

- Default AP gain is a little too slow.

- Not enough levels, and some of the ones that are there are boring (Parappa's Dojo comes to mind). Though some of them are really inspired, like the Hades level with Patapons.

Overall, I like the game just a bit better than Brawl, but not as much as SSB Melee, and I think the online component can be a big plus.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Do you think PS All Stars is judged harshly, mew?

I'm actually surprised by the lack of Sony characters in the game. They have a lot more stuff that could have been thrown in

Badman, Ico, Wander, Rau, Tati, Gabe, anything from Ape Escape, Legend of Dragoon, Okage, Dark Cloud, the upcoming Soul Sacrifice.

A level where you fight on the flying colossi ? Or the Titans from GoW III? A Kinetica/GT mash-up level? Just seems like there could have been a lot more in this regard.

[Armando]

Re: Do you think PS All Stars is judged harshly, mew?

I wouldn't call a 20% increase in speed and decrease in strength "very different."

Dr. Mario

* Much stronger ranged game. Pills do more damage and stun longer than fireballs, and bounce higher as well.
* Much stronger forward smash, but his electric palm has less range than Mario's fireball palm.
* Forward air strikes enemies up-forward, can kill easily. Mario's forward air is a very hard to land and easy to recover from meteor spike (hits down.)
* Weaker recovery - Tornado spin and cape don't grab as much height.

Tier/score (out of 10): 6.12 (2nd highest Middle Tier.)
Mario: 5.34 (lowest Middle Tier.)

Falco

* Lasers stun. Fox's don't. Half his gameplay revolves around keeping your opponent locked down, whereas Fox uses his lasers to rack up damage.
* Weak up-smash, powerful forward smash (Fox's are inverted.)
* Reflector hits upwards, Down air is an incredibly potent spike (hits downward, no air tech). They can be comboed together. Fox's Reflector hits forward, and his d-air has no knockback but can combo into the reflector.
* Very high first jump, Fox's is shorter.
* Incredibly high fast fall speed.
* Weaker mid-air jump, and half-length Up-B and Forward-B - has a much harder time recovering compared to Fox.
* Considerably lower run speed.

Tier: 9.15 (lowest Top Tier.)
Fox: 9.88 (highest Top Tier.)

Young Link

* Faster run speed
* Better jumps
* Spin attack is near-worthless - little range, no knockback (Link's is deadly.)
* Boomerang is much more maneuverable
* Bombs are harder to grab
* Arrows charge faster
* Down-air can spike
* Much lighter - dies at low percentages.

Tier: 4.15 (Low Tier.)
Link: 4.69 (highest Low Tier.)

Roy

* More powerful, but very slow counter. Nearly worthless, since it requires activating it so far ahead that you have better options. Marth's is weak, but extremely fast.
* Pathetic shield. Attacks can poke through the top or bottom after 1-2 seconds.
* Does more damage/knockback with the middle of the sword - Marth uses the tip, making him much more dangerous and easier to use.
* Falls quickly. He's easy to combo and has a harder time recovering. Marth is floaty and hard to combo.
* Very low midair jump. Makes his recovery even worse.
* Nearly all of his aerials are pathetically weak. Down air is a weak meteor if you hit with Roy's body. Marth's down air is powerful spike when it hits with the tip - guaranteed death off the stage. Roy can't use his d-air off the stage without falling to his death.
* Down tilt pokes people up slightly and sets them up for combos. Marth's pushes people away.
* Flare Blade (neutral B) is near worthless. Marth's eats through shields, even without charging.

Tier: 3.60 (Low Tier.)
Marth: 9.85 (2nd highest Top Tier.)

Ganondorf

* Runs very slow. Captain Falcon has the highest running speed in the game (although Fox accelerates faster.)
* Forward air is a punch with huge range and no timing requirements. Captain Falcon's is his signature knee, which requires positioning and timing to be deadly.
* Short jumps. Falcon gets a lot of air with his jumps and insane speed.
* Can chase most people off of his throws. Captain Falcon only gets to chainthrow fast fallers.
* Down B (Wizard's Foot) and Forward B (Gerudo Dragon) are slower and harder to use than Falcon Kick and Raptor Boost.
* Up Air can be used to spike people if it catches them during the end. It's also a powerful move in its own right. Falcon's up air is weak but sets up for juggles.
* Doesn't have an up tilt.
* Jab has great stun, but he has no jab combo.
* Huge target.
* Falls slower than Falcon.
* Much heavier, flies less far.

Tier: 6.04 (Middle tier).
Cpt Falcon: 8.00 (tied with Jigglypuff for middle of High tier.)

Pichu

Joke character. There ARE differences, but I'm not familiar enough nor inclined to bother.

Tier: 1.15, bottom of the list. You are the ultimate casual if you main this guy; he's even worse than Yoshi and Yoshi has no recovery move.
Pikachu: 4.31 (2nd highest Low Tier.)

Tier list source: Official MBR Tier List - Smash World Forums
Of course, the tier list is just average performance. Clones counter different characters from their counterparts (duh - they're different.)

[Icemage]

Re: Do you think PS All Stars is judged harshly, mew?

I'm actually surprised by the lack of Sony characters in the game. They have a lot more stuff that could have been thrown in

Badman, Ico, Wander, Rau, Tati, Gabe, anything from Ape Escape, Legend of Dragoon, Okage, Dark Cloud, the upcoming Soul Sacrifice.

A level where you fight on the flying colossi ? Or the Titans from GoW III? A Kinetica/GT mash-up level? Just seems like there could have been a lot more in this regard.

Derp.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Do you think PS All Stars is judged harshly, mew?

Derp.


Icemage

I was hoping more for an actual monkey. The human characters aren't even memorable, if I didn't make that obvious enough.

[Icemage]

Re: Do you think PS All Stars is judged harshly, mew?

I was hoping more for an actual monkey. The human characters aren't even memorable, if I didn't make that obvious enough.

What part of "anything from Ape Escape" indicates "actual monkey"? And what part of "Spike is the hero of the Ape Escape games" makes him less memorable than the monkeys? >____________________>

Hence... "Derp."

At any rate, the game itself seems well put together for the amount of time spent on it. Few games get it right on the first pass, and Battle Royale is no exception (where's a Final Fantasy character, even if Square-Enix probably would have insisted on Lightning instead of Cloud)? It does need more characters and levels, but honestly it makes good use of what it does have, and as much as haters may want to hate, it's pretty fun and - at least at first blush - seems relatively well-balanced.

Does that mean I think it's going to topple Street Fighter / Tekken / Mortal Kombat / etc. in the FGC? Absolutely not. But that doesn't make Battle Royale a bad game, and it's honestly a good starting point since - as you've mentioned - Sony has a ton of IPs they haven't touched, and they appear willing and able to bring in 3rd party IPs.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Do you think PS All Stars is judged harshly, mew?

I think the fact most people would see him and think Yugioh and were disappointed the Ape minigame didn't make the PS3 MGS HD collection speaks to how forgettable Spike is. Could just be me, but I don't think I'm alone on that.

As unique, defined characters go, I think P4A still has the most to roost about in that regard in how dramatically different each character felt. Not so much saying that because I like the franchise as its just something ASW excels at. You know, considering they have a background in cross-dressing nuns with yo-yos and sexy, preteen pirate girls with giant anchors and witches with electric guitars. After those kinds of unique characters, Persona almost seems reined in.

[Firewind]

Re: Do you think PS All Stars is judged harshly, mew?

Most people frown upon items in Smash Bros, though.

Obligatory Pony Version

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Do you think PS All Stars is judged harshly, mew?

The Pony version is much more awesome, IMO.

[Absentia]

Re: Do you think PS All Stars is judged harshly, mew?

SS4Ricky will beat everyone at Melee.

[jinxhand]

Re: Do you think PS All Stars is judged harshly, mew?

No offense (Just kidding. Take offense), but you obviously haven't even touched the game. If you did, you'd realize, once again, you're talking out your ass. While the only argument you proposed in regards to 2D I can somewhat see where you're coming from, your entire post reeks of "I've only seen videos and never played."

Smash Bros
-Many characters are carbon copies, except with different models and very slight stat adjustments (Pichu, Pikachu, Falco, Fox, Ganondorf, Captain Falcon, Mario, Dr. Mario......)
-There's no combo system
-Kill by hitting off edge
-Actual 1P gameplay
-Shit online
-Total item frenzy

All Stars
-No two characters play the same. At all.
-Combo system
-No HP/percent bar
-Single player experience is garbage
-Good online
-Competitive rank system
-Sometimes lucky to see two items in an entire match
-No Pokeballs (sadness)

Also, Kratos is easymode if you aren't failboat and shut him down. If I can win FFA as Fat Princess against 2 Kratos and 1 Raiden, no excuses.

I'm sorry, I just gotta make a few points about Smash Bros (I'm late to the party, oh well). I don't main the game, I'm just a fighter at heart and I actually like to analyze and learn fighting game systems of games both popular and unpopular.

- Smash Bros indeed does have a combo system. There's plenty of combo vids to prove that point (youtube, combovids.com, etc). If you're implying that because there's no combo counter that there isn't a combo system, then SF2, MK1, MK2, and a bunch of other fighters would like to have a word with you.

- Despite some of the characters being "carbon copies", there's way more than a slight difference between them. For instance, in SSBM, Falco is stronger than Fox simply because he can spam shots that do more damage, which when you couple in combos, can lead to a quick KO. Sure, he's slightly stronger than Fox, which shows on several tier lists (they're both usually in the top 2nd and 3rd slot), but when you compare characters like Mario and Dr Mario, they are on different parts of the tier list (Mario being way stronger than Dr Mario). I can't go into full detail because that's not a game I main, so you want to check out something like smashboards(dot)com or something for further detail. Point being is that there's more to it than stat adjustments. That's like saying Ken/Ryu, Nina/Anna, Sub/Scorpion, Turtles (TMNT:TF), and Law/Lee (Tekken 1-Tag1) are mere clones without looking at their true differences, which can actually be major.

- Item frenzy? Maybe in Brawl, but Melee didn't seem like that at all imo. I'd constantly get a harisen, and the parisol, and that would be it. Maybe a pokéball, but nothing too special. I didn't even change the settings for months in until I learned about the competitive side of SSBM and one of the tournament rules.

Ok, for PSAS, I don't feel like Kratos is really "easy-mode" (he's more of that in MK9 though). I played the beta, and a bit of the retail version, and by far Radec wins that title. Aside from that, the game isn't really bad. I personally don't like how you have to land a super to get a kill though. Comparing that to Smash Bros, there's more strategy involved when it comes to knocking someone off the edge, especially considering the fact that your opponent(s) have ways of getting back and staying on the platforms. I feel that portion caters to the casual gamer where they can feel like they've done something good without really putting in much effort. To me, this is reminiscent of watching casuals build their meter in UMvC3 and doing a THC (Team Hyper Combo) shortly after.

I'm not defending or bashing either game. They both have good points and bad points. I do like how Sony's adamant about balancing the game, so much as to include an infinite-detection system (thank you Skull Girls!!!). I feel the game came out way to early, similar to Capcom fighters...

[Icemage]

Re: Do you think PS All Stars is judged harshly, mew?

^

* Melee's items weren't typically ridiculous, though the Hammer is pretty powerful on some stages and the Tomato is a game-changer sometimes. Brawl's item list is full of nasty and unbalanced surprises. I think you'll agree that the power levels of items in Battle Royale are much closer to SSB Melee's than the laundry list of fail that is Brawl's item list.

* Carbon copy characters aren't always lazy versions, but they can be sometimes, as in the case of the original MK palette-swap ninjas. I'll have to respectfully disagree and say Falco and Fox are close enough to identical in terms of gameplay in Smash as their differences are very minor. Dr. Mario isn't a carbon copy, but what he is, is a throw-away character, in the sense of "a similar character who brings little that is useful to the table in terms of tactics".

Evil/Good Cole share some of their basic moves, but their strongest signature moves are tactically very different (see: Good Cole's extremely good level 2 super and very weak level 3 vs. Evil Cole's weak level 2 and very strong level 3). Their stronger lightning and ice/fire attacks are drastically different from one another as well. More importantly, both versions of Cole are viable and don't compare unfavorably to one another.

* I mentioned before that I think Radec is the only character that feels like a one-trick pony in Battle Royale because of his dedicated projectile/keep-away game, though his grenade moves are pretty neat from a tactical point of view, giving him close quarters crowd control without turning him into a melee monster.

* I'm equally skeptical of the long-term viability of only getting kills via super attacks (especially as you can't deliberately choose what level of super to use), but that's something that can easily be fixed in a future installment - and what we've got is serviceable, if nowhere near perfect. If AP generation were faster, if you could choose which super to use (via R2 + face button, perhaps), and if you could stock maybe 5 levels of AP, I'd be much happier with that setup.


Icemage

[Etra]

Re: Do you think PS All Stars is judged harshly, mew?

Even when facts and experience are provided.

Facts != Opinions
Experience != 30 minutes of demo

Well considering Etra lives on Bullshit Mountain and isn't even a clever troll, you just say your piece and accept no matter what you say you won't be listened to.

http://i.imgur.com/6jRlb.gif