Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

[Icemage]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

Map screens, extra buttons, quick access to loadouts, setting up waypoints - there's very little that couldn't be done with more options on a touch screen.

Sure, there's nothing wrong with having more standard options. But frankly the multiplayer asymmmetric examples of Blops2 and Orochi 3 suck. They may suck less than other workarounds used to try and fix the basic issue of "not everyone is using the same controller", but they are still workarounds.

I'm not faulting Nintendo for transferring the idea of the two-screen DS to a home console; that part of the Wii Game Pad is fine. I am, however, pointing out that the implementation is not elegant, and confusing to the end user and developer alike, due to the hardware being too underpowered to properly handle a video feed for more than 1 external screen.

Uncompressed audio is just a marketing gimmick.

If this were not true, MP3s and other compressed audio formats would have never overcome the uncompressed WAV format. Does your Android phone do play WAV files for music or does it play MP3 and AAC?

For someone who claims to have worked in audio production, you seem woefully uneducated about the history of audio formatting. MP3 and other compression algorithms came about because of...

[drum roll and the envelope please]

storage limitations

All of the various compression schemes we use today are a trade-off between quality and convenience. In the case of MP3 specifically, it rose to prominence with the advent of the internet and the rise of Napster and iTunes. MP3 has acceptable levels of quality for most people, while still maintaining a reasonable size footprint that makes it easily transmitted electronically. It has nothing to do with equivalence; only that MP3's for most people are "good enough" for most forms of non-orchestral audio.

In the case of the PS3 specifically, Sony doesn't call for uncompressed audio, but it's often used because space isn't an issue. When most multiplatform games are shipping on 7GB Xbox 360 DVDs and 25GB PS3 Blu-rays, there's a ton of space left on the disc, so developers will often choose to upgrade the quality (as long as it doesn't significantly impact performance). Where the PS3 sometimes falls down is the relatively slow read time of the 1x Blu-ray drive, and hence some of that data gets dumped into a cache on the hard drive because it is significantly faster.

Nintendo is designing the Wii U under the (perhaps misguided) assumption that people are not stupid.

But people ARE stupid... that's sort of the point. The current download size rules on XBLA and on Nintendo's devices are testament to that. You don't have storage problems on those devices because Microsoft and Nintendo have decreed that they don't want it to be a problem.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

Sure, there's nothing wrong with having more standard options. But frankly the multiplayer asymmmetric examples of Blops2 and Orochi 3 suck. They may suck less than other workarounds used to try and fix the basic issue of "not everyone is using the same controller", but they are still workarounds.

What is this bizarre obsession you have with the WiiPad?

On one hand you're concerned it it will disrupt symmetric gameplay - the local two-player co-op examples absolutely disprove this notion. On the other had you also seem to think it needs an asymmetric function anyway or the touchscreen is rendered pointless. This is like saying the touch screen has to be used in each DS game or that gameplay action must encompass both DS screens.

It doesn't have to be both. Devil Survivor doesn't use the touchscreen for anything. In Advance Wars it can be used it all the time, but you could still play with D-Pad and buttons exclusively. Black Ops II wants to use this WiiPad screen as another screen - since that screen has a controller on it I don't really see the problem there. The console apparently streams player 2's perspective to this controller lag-free.

How does it get more "elegant" than that? That's exactly how it should be for two player co-op unless you really want real-estate taken away from the HDTV. Or to invest in a 3DTV that no one will ever use.

For someone who claims to have worked in audio production, you seem woefully uneducated about the history of audio formatting. MP3 and other compression algorithms came about because of...

[drum roll and the envelope please]

storage limitations

All of the various compression schemes we use today are a trade-off between quality and convenience. In the case of MP3 specifically, it rose to prominence with the advent of the internet and the rise of Napster and iTunes. MP3 has acceptable levels of quality for most people, while still maintaining a reasonable size footprint that makes it easily transmitted electronically. It has nothing to do with equivalence; only that MP3's for most people are "good enough" for most forms of non-orchestral audio.

In the case of the PS3 specifically, Sony doesn't call for uncompressed audio, but it's often used because space isn't an issue. When most multiplatform games are shipping on 7GB Xbox 360 DVDs and 25GB PS3 Blu-rays, there's a ton of space left on the disc, so developers will often choose to upgrade the quality (as long as it doesn't significantly impact performance). Where the PS3 sometimes falls down is the relatively slow read time of the 1x Blu-ray drive, and hence some of that data gets dumped into a cache on the hard drive because it is significantly faster.

Gee, thanks for the history lesson. I TOTALLY didn't know any of this even though I was strongly implying the nuances before. Thanks for that.

Here's some background for you. I worked in the early conversion formats, also for a radio station that INFURIATINGLY used a WAV-based playlist program. Were it not for the fact that we kept the CD library, CD players and PSA 8-track beds around, we would have been subject to the limits of that HDD. This is why we moved to Mp3 as it got us - oh - about 80 to 90% of that storage back. Kind of a big deal, I'd think.

This "digital footprint" you speak of isn't like needle on the vinyl or the hiss and pop of cassette tapes - if you get the compression just right its not even noticeable most of the time. You'd have to strap on some 7.1 headphones and listen REALLY hard for it to matter. Much like going over 60 FPS, the benefit of totally uncompressed audio exists for vanity, not sanity. The PS3 HDD is very easy to max because of how inefficient Blu Ray encourages people to be. Its entirely possible with how Wii U's format is that it might happen here as well, but I'm allowed more options for storage here.

If you're trying to drive the point home that Blu-Ray lets you not have to worry about compression, I totally see that. But it also leads to massive install times, tedious lengthy downloads on the already abysmally slow Playstation network and eats up HDD space like cotton candy. I'm praying Nintendo encourages compression where its practical to use it, even with the 25 GB format they're using.

If people actually are stupid about storage, well, I have a lot of enlightenment to do on Black Friday this year - provided Gamestop calls on me. I think most moms and grandfathers can deal with SD cards and thumbdrives, what with thumbdrives now coming in Swiss Army knives and keychains now.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

For what it's worth, you know once place where asymmetric gameplay really shines?

Mario Party.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

Mario Party's popularity is something I'll never understand fully.

Dokapon Kingdom, totally. Mario Party is generally lost on me.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

A Nintendo product is less than absolute perfection, BBQ senselessly argues otherwise for pages on end.

In other news tonight bears shit in the woods and we have confirmation that contrary to popular opinion the pope is indeed catholic.

[Icemage]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

What is this bizarre obsession you have with the WiiPad?

Hm? I've pointed out that I think the execution on the Wii Pad is somewhat flawed. You're the one continuing to challenge the statement.

Can you seriously tell me you think it's perfect the way it is? Because if you can, I've a bridge to sell you.

If you're trying to drive the point home that Blu-Ray lets you not have to worry about compression, I totally see that. But it also leads to massive install times, tedious lengthy downloads on the already abysmally slow Playstation network and eats up HDD space like cotton candy. I'm praying Nintendo encourages compression where its practical to use it, even with the 25 GB format they're using.

Here I'm picking on your stance that regarding uncompressed audio on the PS3. It's not used universally, and it's not always audio that gets written to those hard drive installs. I don't know how much clearer I can make it but to say the reasons the installs exist at all is because the Blu-ray drive in the PS3 is too damn slow for its own good. If it were a 4x or higher drive, it would be adequate. As it is, it "mostly" keeps up with the Xbox 360 DVD drive on average, but doesn't have the sprinting speed of the 12x drive in the 360 (which developers use by putting often-used data on the parts of the disc that read the fastest on the outside edge). If the Blu-ray drive were faster, hard drive caching would be largely unnecessary, and that has very little whatsoever to do with the quality of the audio.

I would expect ALL of the next generation systems to sport faster optical drives in the next gen, Wii U included. I don't know what Nintendo's got under the hood of the Wii U but it's probably some Blu-ray variant. Nintendo's big on not having to pay full licensing for their optical media (see: Wii drives and discs that are DVDs in all but name, plus that weird mini-disc setup that the GameCube had).

Actually what would be interesting to see is if either Microsoft or Sony go for a small SSD cache drive in their next unit. The Wii U might actually be helped by a USB-connected SSD too, come to think of it.

If people actually are stupid about storage, well, I have a lot of enlightenment to do on Black Friday this year - provided Gamestop calls on me. I think most moms and grandfathers can deal with SD cards and thumbdrives, what with thumbdrives now coming in Swiss Army knives and keychains now.

I work in IT and I still get clueless questions constantly about the most basic of things. People who aren't particularly interested in tech or gaming (or any tech-related activity like photography) rarely spend beyond the minimal amount of time learning things beyond "this widget goes in THIS slot, not THAT one".


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

Hm? I've pointed out that I think the execution on the Wii Pad is somewhat flawed. You're the one continuing to challenge the statement.

Can you seriously tell me you think it's perfect the way it is? Because if you can, I've a bridge to sell you.

I don't think anything is perfect, but I don't go making up "problems" where there aren't any, either. Touch screen implementation can be a mixed bag, but it can also be done incredibly well and I'm not going to dismiss the whole thing because EA and Rockstar port old console games on Android and iOS and expect it to just work. Nintendo Land is a collection of fun mini-games and then there's Balloon Trip Land, the bastard child of that collection that only serves to remind you how much of non-classic Balloon Fight and Trip were.

Also, the only thing more infuriating than being an IT guy is being cognizant of what technology does and then being treated like its magic you need to be taught. I know all too well how to push an IT guy's buttons and I generally like to do it on purpose. They're like production editors, except production editors need to be talked down from killing others with offers of beer.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

I know all too well how to push an IT guy's buttons and I generally like to do it on purpose.

There is a special place in hell reserved for people like you.

[Kailea]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

I do not think that the things Nintendo does are perfect myself, but it seems more then most, that people try and find things wrong, when there is nothing. People already claiming the WiiU will fail, and this and that will lead to it's / Nintenod's downfall, I get tired of hearing it, because honestly it is nothing but bullshit.

[Icemage]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

I don't think anything is perfect, but I don't go making up "problems" where there aren't any, either.

We're going to have to agree to disagree then, because frankly I think there IS a problem there. It's not a huge one, but it's there. I'm done with arguing with a brick wall for the evening.


Icemage

[Armando]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

Immediately thought of this thread

At the end of the day I'll buy the thing if it has enough games I want that can't be found anywhere else. Kinda like every other console that came before it.

In other news my friends back in Puerto Rico tried to reserve a Wii U and found it was already sold out in GameStop and Toys'R'Us. They had reserve it in Worst Best Buy.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

I liked his post folloing the comic

Apologies to Patrick Alexander who totally inspired the format of today’s comic. Hilarity comics is much funnier.

Nintendo just can’t seem to win. Look at any article about Nintendo, read through the comments. Nintendo is doomed through their terrible gimmicks, early or late console with poor hardware, or mobile phones are putting them to a slow and painful death. Now, I’m not exactly the biggest advocate of the WiiU, but Nintendo made a lot of money in the last 5+ years because of everything I just mentioned, and the 3DS is the fastest selling handheld ever. Color me perplexed.

Nintendo held a press event yesterday, and while it wasn’t a terrible event, it wasn’t exactly exciting either. 350 dollars for the system, and a relatively good launch window. Better than any of the current systems at least, and Nintendo is funding Bayonetta 2. Nintendo is known to fund unsuccessful games thinking that a sequel will gain the audience the first one deserves. This was my incorrect way to view this. The correct way to view this event was Bayonetta had been stolen from other platforms, 350 dollars is highway robbery, and the first four months of launch are a barren wasteland. Bringing games up by ten dollars to match costs of 360 and PS3 games is also horrendous.

I understand the shaky relationship people have with Nintendo. The wii, despite it’s commercial success, performed relatively poorly in terms of enjoyment. If you are like me, you put far more hours into your 360, PS3, or PC games, third party support was mediocre, and the Zelda game that was supposed to really put the system to the test wasn’t anything that couldn’t have been done without the wii remote.

All this said, I can’t grasp why there seems to be a need to cry foul at news that is not bad or is in fact good. That kind of strikes me as looking for things to be angry about.

This was also pure gold:

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff



That would actually work.

[Malacite]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

The potential for sheer sadism...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

Its ideas like that often make me more excited to play something than the actual thing its based on.

Playing an old vector dungeon or MUD is really something I'd never go back to because of the fact I'd need graph paper and pencils to navigate it. Give me the tools to make the map on a touch screen, however, and you've sold me on the entire idea. I own a few DS games that literally make you map the areas out and allow you to notate the map, place icons and all manner of stuff. Makes me feel like a cartographer without having to waste paper and erasers to do it.

I also don't enjoy the setup of table-top RPGs, but something like this would make it more swift and easy, especially considering the Near Field technology is integrated into the Wii U pad and the Wii U is internet-capable, so you could actually have your little pewter figurines to scan in after your DM has set-up the scenario and such.