Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

[Kailea]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

Eh? That's part of the publisher/developer relationship. What makes Bayonetta 2's situation any different than Ninja Gaiden II? Microsoft was in the exact same position on NG2 as Nintendo is on Bayonetta 2 to all outward appearances, and yet NG Sigma 2 happened.

Considering that there's an existing fanbase (obviously) on both the 360 and PS3 for the Bayonetta franchise, I sincerely doubt Nintendo can throw enough money at Platinum Games to make it worth their while to leave money on the table (and piss off the fanbase when they could just do a relatively painless port to the next gen). The working assumption is that both the next Xbox and PlayStation will have significantly more computing muscle than the Wii U, so porting shouldn't be an issue.


Icemage

Then they will go from complaining that it is on the WiiU to complaining about it being old when it is ported..........

[Icemage]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

Then they will go from complaining that it is on the WiiU to complaining about it being old when it is ported..........

Sure, but Nintendo still has to convince the hardcore people who are the type to enjoy Bayonetta's gameplay to buy their console - something that Microsoft and Sony typically have less of a problem doing.

Personally, I'm not convinced that the standard GamePad is going to be a particularly comfortable control scheme for a game like Bayonetta 2 (at least compared to a 360 controller or Dual Shock), but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise. Certainly there's the Pro controller for the Wii U, but now we're talking about a $400 investment to play the game (console + alternate controller + game). That's something of a tough sale.

I'll probably get a Wii U at some point, but probably not at launch. The launch slate doesn't excite me, so it'd probably collect about as much dust as my Wii has over time (Xenoblade and The Last Story notwithstanding). If/when it gets a bit more compelling and polished software, I'll get one then.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

Eh? That's part of the publisher/developer relationship. What makes Bayonetta 2's situation any different than Ninja Gaiden II? Microsoft was in the exact same position on NG2 as Nintendo is on Bayonetta 2 to all outward appearances, and yet NG Sigma 2 happened.

Considering that there's an existing fanbase (obviously) on both the 360 and PS3 for the Bayonetta franchise, I sincerely doubt Nintendo can throw enough money at Platinum Games to make it worth their while to leave money on the table (and piss off the fanbase when they could just do a relatively painless port to the next gen). The working assumption is that both the next Xbox and PlayStation will have significantly more computing muscle than the Wii U, so porting shouldn't be an issue.


Icemage

I can use anecdotal evidence, too!

MS still retains exclusive publishing rights for Mass Effect on Xbox and Windows. They funded its development and had some of their own folks work on it. If anyone could pry that game loose from MS, I would be EA and even they can't seem to to it so PS3 and Wii could plausibly have a complete trilogy.

Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes - Again, Nintendo funded it and one of thier own teams did most of the development. This did not appear in the HD collection. TLS - same thing.

Sony often won't deal with publishing indies if they don't exclusivity or get the game to appear on their platform first. This per the studio behind Limbo, who only grudgingly got taken on PSN later after its success with Live and other platforms. Sony pretty much owns Fl0W, Flower and The Journey and publishing rights forever. You're never going to see Guacamelee on another platform.

Sure, but Nintendo still has to convince the hardcore people who are the type to enjoy Bayonetta's gameplay to buy their console - something that Microsoft and Sony typically have less of a problem doing.

Which totally worked out for Shadows of the Damned (24k) and, oh right, Bayonetta (200k between PS3 and 360) I don't think No More Heroes even broke 20k on PS3, but it exceed 200k with Wii. This always comes down to profit margins, though. I think my Sega's standard, Bayonetta was a failure while No More Heroes was considered a succeeds (though it required a long tail).

[Kailea]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

Sure, but Nintendo still has to convince the hardcore people who are the type to enjoy Bayonetta's gameplay to buy their console - something that Microsoft and Sony typically have less of a problem doing.

Personally, I'm not convinced that the standard GamePad is going to be a particularly comfortable control scheme for a game like Bayonetta 2 (at least compared to a 360 controller or Dual Shock), but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise. Certainly there's the Pro controller for the Wii U, but now we're talking about a $400 investment to play the game (console + alternate controller + game). That's something of a tough sale.

I'll probably get a Wii U at some point, but probably not at launch. The launch slate doesn't excite me, so it'd probably collect about as much dust as my Wii has over time (Xenoblade and The Last Story notwithstanding). If/when it gets a bit more compelling and polished software, I'll get one then.


Icemage

even though it has to be bought separately, they have the pro controller, and it is pretty much a 360 gamepad with the right stick in a different place ;p I an sure many games will have a "no touch screen" control option.

I myself said "screw it" and reserved 2 of the pro controllers (I like to have at least two of every control device)

I know that that really does not count, since it is something extra you have to buy, but it still means that people are not "stuck" with the touch screen.

[jenova_9]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

oh mew

they don't even bother to bring back characters besides Toads as playable heroes. Such an uncreative bunch Nintendo is, mew.
Daisy should have been involved in this by being next to the tree the heroes land on (having a picnic with some retainers or something), and join the party.

[Icemage]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

Which totally worked out for Shadows of the Damned (24k) and, oh right, Bayonetta (200k between PS3 and 360) I don't think No More Heroes even broke 20k on PS3, but it exceed 200k with Wii. This always comes down to profit margins, though. I think my Sega's standard, Bayonetta was a failure while No More Heroes was considered a succeeds (though it required a long tail).

Shadows of the Damned tanked because it had zero advertising on top of being an extremely niche title (so niche that I didn't even buy it, and I buy pretty much everything that's at least reasonably decent without the name "Activision" on it). EA's partly at fault for that, but honestly the concept of the game itself is sophomoric and trite - not something most people are going to go out of their way to experience, and the sales prove it.

No More Heroes is sort of a bad example there because the game isn't terribly compelling without motion controls, and only a small slice of PS3 owners have the Move wand to really get anything out of it (that and it's actually not a very good port to begin with). The Wii version benefited (somewhat) from the Wii being the hot commodity between 2006-2008, as it was released in late 2007.

I don't think your Bayonetta numbers are even vaguely correct since first-day sales in Japan were nearly 200K alone.

EDIT: I'm right, your Bayonetta figures are complete bullshit.
http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/p...nal.pdf#page=5

1.35M lifetime sales.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

Ok so Wikipedia was wrong.

Still, if it really broke a mil and still was not deemed successful enough for a multiplatform sequel, it has to mean Sega intended to sit on this IP and do nothing with it unless someone else took the risk. I recall Yu Suzuki saying Shenmue would need someone wiling to pick up the tab to make Shenmue III happen. He even said he tried to buy the IP back from them, but they were not selling. Apparently Ryo's better of hanging out with Sonic and the Golden Axe dwarf in Sonic racers now.

Worth nothing VC2 and 3 were exclusives funded by Sony, too, so it's placement on PSP might have been part of he deal.

All things considered, I don't think anyone is going to eat the risk for Sega and let them waltz to another platform later. There doesn't seem to be a precedent for it so far. So far it seems like MS, Sony and Nintendo deal carefully with Sega and Sega has forgotten what risk is.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

To be blunt, I'm not getting a Wii U at launch, either. I still have tons more mileage to squeeze out of my Wii first, including picking up TLS and Xenoblade Chronicles.

The Wii U very much reminds me of the DS in several ways, much more so than the Wii. I anticipate that, like the DS, it will have a slow start, but eventually snowball into something that everybody who doesn't have a stick up their butt about Nintendo will have.

Not to mention that there hasn't been a console worth picking up at launch since . . . er, the Wii . . .

[Icemage]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

I don't think Sega owns the IP for Bayonetta, do they? Pretty sure Platinum holds the IP for all of their games - if they didn't, how do you explain Anarchy Reigns? As such, I don't see where Sega has any say whatsoever in where Bayonetta 2 or any subsequent versions end up for that IP.

While you might be right about Nintendo fronting some of the money for development of Bayonetta 2, I don't see how that precludes it showing up later on other platforms if there's money to be made there (and again - porting is relatively easy when you're going from weaker hardware to stronger hardware unless you do something monumentally boneheaded like Ubisoft did with losing the finalized source code for Silent Hill HD).


Icemage

[Raydeus]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

Sega was only the publisher. So the change to Nintendo means both Sega and Sony are out of the deal.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

I don't think Sega owns the IP for Bayonetta, do they? Pretty sure Platinum holds the IP for all of their games - if they didn't, how do you explain Anarchy Reigns? As such, I don't see where Sega has any say whatsoever in where Bayonetta 2 or any subsequent versions end up for that IP.

While you might be right about Nintendo fronting some of the money for development of Bayonetta 2, I don't see how that precludes it showing up later on other platforms if there's money to be made there (and again - porting is relatively easy when you're going from weaker hardware to stronger hardware unless you do something monumentally boneheaded like Ubisoft did with losing the finalized source code for Silent HD.

I think you meant Konami there, but they're both boneheads on porting.

Still, you're dancing around Mass Effect and MGS Twin Snakes. If who fronts the money doesn't preclude where the game goes, what's stopping EA and Konami from getting the code and using it? All Konami would have to do is rip out the Nintendo references from Twin Snakes and like toss some ZOE models in the place of Mario and Yoshi and you're done.

And license the voice work from David Hayter since he actually footed the entire bill to get the original cast. Code from Nintendo, voice work Hayter paid for.

Also, I' just throwing this in the middle just because, but good job everyone on ignoring J9's nonsense.

Silent Hill HD was cobbled together from incomplete code and not the source code. It probably didn't help the team porting it that Team Silent was broken up and spread all over so they couldn't really get the rhyme or reason behind how the game was made. The 360 version is so beyond repair that Konami had to offer MGS HD and other games in exchange. If Kojima Productions and Bluepoint weren't on ZOE HD I would be really worried about that version.

I don't know if I believe the next Playstation and Xbox are going to be worlds stronger than what we have now. The fact that Watch Dogs, Remember Me and MGS Ground Zeroes all seem to have a current-gen fallback leads me to think the framework is highly compatible and the leap in graphics is hardly important if PS3 and 360 can run versions of this stuff.

[Icemage]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

I think you meant Konami there, but they're both boneheads on porting.

Hmm, yeah I brain-faded on Konami w/ Silent Hill HD. Still, the point stands that most of the HD remakes and cross-platform ports we've seen this generation have been better than the originals.

If who fronts the money doesn't preclude where the game goes, what's stopping EA and Konami from getting the code and using it?

IP ownership and licensing. But we have no information one way or another with respect to Bayonetta. I find it dubious that Nintendo would care to invest enough capital to buy enough control over the Bayonetta IP to make it permanently exclusive, especially as there's no guarantee that a port to the PS4/Xbox 720 would even be profitable.

I don't know if I believe the next Playstation and Xbox are going to be worlds stronger than what we have now.

"Worlds stronger" is probably an overstatement, but the Xbox 720 and PS4 are in good shape to be noticeably more capable than the Wii U, specifically because of the WiiPad. It takes a significant chunk of extra graphics/processing power and memory to support that 2nd screen (let alone a 2nd GamePad like Nintendo is claiming will eventually be made available via firmware update), and if the Wii U really is using the equivalent of 3 Wii Broadway cores, that's basically going to put it slightly ahead of the Xbox 360 and PS3 in terms of practical computing power, with a small bit of extra muscle for graphics. The Wii U does have significantly more memory than the 360 and PS3, but it would not surprise me to see both of the next gen MS and Sony machines ship with ~4GB of RAM next year (RAM's cheap these days), which would again put the Wii U behind by roughly the same amount that the Wii trails the PS3 and 360. Granted, Microsoft might screw up by the numbers and be forced to invest a lot of processing power into Kinect v2.0 or whatever they've got in store (the current version of Kinect uses a hefty chunk of processing power), so who knows...

The fact that Watch Dogs, Remember Me and MGS Ground Zeroes all seem to have a current-gen fallback leads me to think the framework is highly compatible and the leap in graphics is hardly important if PS3 and 360 can run versions of this stuff.

Watch Dogs isn't coming to current gen (I don't think?). Remember Me is more or less a mashup of Uncharted + Batman in terms of gameplay and presentation, so it's not asking to do anything that current console hardware can't do. MGS Ground Zeroes is definitely coming to current gen consoles, and also doesn't do anything we haven't really seen before.

I still think Nintendo has put themselves in a pretty good position with the Wii U's hardware specs. The only serious problems that might come back to bite them is the way they're doing the Wii Pad (I'm sorry, but if you believe their marketing garbage about asymmetric gameplay, I've a bridge to sell you), their allergic reaction to anything social that isn't squeaky-clean (hi2u friend codes), and perhaps an insufficient amount of confidence in digital delivery (not enough standard storage to support a hassle-free and robust digital download service).


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

Yeah I'm pretty sure as well that PG owns all their IPs. And honestly, I'd much rather have Vanquish 2 over Bayonetta 2.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

I still think Nintendo has put themselves in a pretty good position with the Wii U's hardware specs. The only serious problems that might come back to bite them is the way they're doing the Wii Pad (I'm sorry, but if you believe their marketing garbage about asymmetric gameplay, I've a bridge to sell you), their allergic reaction to anything social that isn't squeaky-clean (hi2u friend codes), and perhaps an insufficient amount of confidence in digital delivery (not enough standard storage to support a hassle-free and robust digital download service).

I don't see what problems a touch screen creates when the standard controls people wanted are there, too. Wii U has options here. ME3, TT2, Pikmin, Black Ops II have all found good uses for the touch screen. I seriously don't see how the touch screen begins to be a problem unless you live under a rock and have never touched a smartphone or iPad. Maybe then its witchcraft to you, but otherwise no.

TTT2 isn't even that creative, they just stream the same thing on the screen to the tablet. I can put something else on the TV and practice my moves. Crude, but effective.
One of Black Ops II's implementations is simply local co-op. Nothing fancy, but it works. One player gets the TV and Pro Controller, the other player gets the WiiPad
ME3 lets gives you a top-down map and lets you pick squad positions. Straight to the point, no one should have a problem.
Scribblenauts Unlimited - pretty much the same application we're seeing with LBP on the Vita now.

If it were all nimrod-level implementations like what Rocksteady is doing with Batman, I'd be right there with you, but I don't think developers are that stupid now that tablets are a thing.

Also - how are the storage options Nintendo is allowing a "hassle?" I can go out and get a 1TB HDD for less than the price I'd pay for a 250 HDD on my 360. Sony charges me $100 just to get a 32 GB card on the Vita, which is still more than that 1TB external HDD. Don't even get me started on the laughable premium Apple asks for just to have an 64GB iPhone 5.

[Gobo]

Re: Sept. 13th Wii U news stuff

Wii interrupt this conversation for some unsurprising news:

Deluxe bundles of the WiiU are sold out at Gamestop, Best Buy and Target. Expect most of these to end up on Ebay on November 19th.