Stellar Management Councillor killed in Libya

[Taskmage]

Re: Stellar Management Councillor killed in Libya

Indeed it is. I'm not suggesting that people should not have the right to say what they like. I am saying they should face the consequences of their actions, and support any form of instant karma for these people who abuse the right of free speech.

Ah. It sounded to me like you were trying to separate hate speech from freedom of speech.

Political ads are a prime example of it.

There really should be consequences for telling outright lies in political speech and informative broadcasting. That there aren't is much more perplexing to me than the lack of punishment for hate speech.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Stellar Management Councillor killed in Libya

I think some of you are conflating the ideas of freedom of speech and hate-speech. I'm all for freedom of speech and freedom of religion, in the context of meaningful civil discourse. This situation (for obvious reasons) does not qualify.


Icemage

Let's say the movie didn't exist and we did "deport" them to these nations.

For being American, Caucasian, Bisexual, Homosexual, Atheist or any religion NOT Islam, in theses nations where Radical Islam is the rule of the day, they would be dehumanized or possibly killed under Sharia law. You know, that thing that lets them stone women in the street for daring to speak to a man they are not married to because it makes them adulterers, the extreme of a religion tells them to kill the Jews and Americans because they're not Muslim.

[Taskmage]

Re: Stellar Management Councillor killed in Libya

15 Photos Of Libyans Apologizing To Americans

If these people's God exists, he should bless them.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Stellar Management Councillor killed in Libya

Some of that seems a little too neutral, but its nice they do make the distinction between their faith and the batshit crazy sector of a religion that did this. I feel bad for them, though, because they have leaders caught up in the radical sector of that religion. For them, its like the Crusades never ended, except Christians and England aren't there to cause problems, just their own corrupt leaders and religious figures.

[Raydeus]

Re: Stellar Management Councillor killed in Libya

Then again, you could argue religious fanaticism is somewhat better than Corporate/Governmental greed. And the US has killed hundreds of thousands of times more people with no apology whatsoever. <_<

[Malacite]

Re: Stellar Management Councillor killed in Libya

Let's say the movie didn't exist and we did "deport" them to these nations.

For being American, Caucasian, Bisexual, Homosexual, Atheist or any religion NOT Islam, in theses nations where Radical Islam is the rule of the day, they would be dehumanized or possibly killed under Sharia law. You know, that thing that lets them stone women in the street for daring to speak to a man they are not married to because it makes them adulterers, the extreme of a religion tells them to kill the Jews and Americans because they're not Muslim.

All of which stems from the Koran, which itself is a messy document at best. Last I checked there's something like 16 "official" interpretations, as the language used in it is extremely vague. It reminds me of what my Dad told me about Torah, how Jews are never supposed to study it alone because that can lead to misinterpretations. You're always supposed to study in a group, to see things from multiple perspectives for everyone's benefit.


EDIT: And yeah, Libya oddly enough is probably one of if not the most "Pro-American" nation in the region. Egypt's pretty much the exact opposite, and it's probably high time the U.S. reconsidered the foreign aid it gets (Pakistan too).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Stellar Management Councillor killed in Libya

Then again, you could argue religious fanaticism is somewhat better than Corporate/Governmental greed. And the US has killed hundreds of thousands of times more people with no apology whatsoever. <_<

Well, most dumb liberals assume government is good and corporations are evil rather than acknowledging the two regularly being in bed with one another, nor are they bothered by a president that authorizes drone strikes that kill innocent civilians just to get to an American the government may not wish to have rights and stand trial. The same president that signed the NDAA into law, supported by both parties, allowing said government to detain an imprison people indefinately for whatever reason they please without a trial.

Dumb conservatives see corporations as an incorruptible bright hope, despite being spot on about the goverment.

Se, yes Ray, we do get the point the US goverment is evil. I'm pretty sure these things would have come to pass even in a Bush or Clinton-like presidency and likely would under Romney as well. This is why I don't give a fuck who becomes president because they will carry on doing the evil shit they're told to do.

[Taskmage]

Re: Stellar Management Councillor killed in Libya

Another perspective on this:

[Jarre]

Re: Stellar Management Councillor killed in Libya

Just remember its from the fox news network...

[Icemage]

Re: Stellar Management Councillor killed in Libya

I think there IS a point to be made that outside resources made such weapons available in the first place, but if you're going to go down that road, what difference does it make that there are guns in the Middle East (does this surprise anyone?) versus guns in the USA? They get politically motivated gun deaths over there... so do we over here in the States. The problem isn't the weapons. Lots of countries have weapons. The problem is the people who carry out the attacks, and the difference is the level of repercussions for people who cross the line.


Icemage

[Taskmage]

Re: Stellar Management Councillor killed in Libya

Just remember its from the fox news network...

It's a local Fox affiliate station, not Fox News Network. This guy regularly rips on Fox News and the Republican party.

I think there IS a point to be made that outside resources made such weapons available in the first place, but if you're going to go down that road, what difference does it make that there are guns in the Middle East (does this surprise anyone?) versus guns in the USA? They get politically motivated gun deaths over there... so do we over here in the States. The problem isn't the weapons. Lots of countries have weapons. The problem is the people who carry out the attacks, and the difference is the level of repercussions for people who cross the line.

I think there's a line to be drawn between military assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades and the handgun crime we have over here. Probably not a lot of people here are well-armed enough to storm an embassy.

[Icemage]

Re: Stellar Management Councillor killed in Libya

I think there's a line to be drawn between military assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades and the handgun crime we have over here.

Oh no doubt, but it's a bit derp-tastic to act shocked that a country that just went through a civil war might have military-grade weapons lying around, no matter where the money came from for those.


Icemage

[Aeni]

Re: Stellar Management Councillor killed in Libya

Even accepting that the killings were legitimately a direct result of the film, which I don't necessarily, I hardly think it's justice to say the creators should be deported to their deaths for exercising what is, in this country, a protected right. Twits they may be, and unwitting provocateurs, but that's not a crime nor is it, in the context of the much greater idiocy and hate-mongering in the world, even notable in my opinion.

We don't even know if they were American citizens to begin with. The director claimed to be an Israeli Jew and then went into hiding. For all we know, the guy was probably some shit-head Filipino. /shrug So ... does Free Speech apply to non-US citizens as well?

[Malacite]

Re: Stellar Management Councillor killed in Libya

That depends on each Country's laws I suppose, but I think western society as a whole generally agrees on Free Speech, at least in principal if not specifics and that it should apply abroad & not just at home.

[Taskmage]

Re: Stellar Management Councillor killed in Libya

For all we know, the guy was probably some shit-head Filipino.

Hey, man. I'm Filipino. What's that hate about?

That depends on each Country's laws I suppose, but I think western society as a whole generally agrees on Free Speech, at least in principal if not specifics and that it should apply abroad & not just at home.

Western society generally agrees on free speech in principle, but the United States is pretty unique in their blanket protection of hate speech. Many if not most countries have some kind of legal provision against it: Hate speech - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia