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  • Future of Cloud Gaming after OnLive Bankruptcy?

    BT hit by OnLive cloud video games firm's shake-up

    BT has said it is "highly likely" it will have to write off its stake in a cloud-based video games service.
    OnLive - which allows users to play titles over the internet without the need for a console - transferred its assets to a new company on Friday in an unusual business transaction.
    Smartphone maker HTC has said it will also recognise a loss on its investment in the company as a result.
    In addition OnLive's workers lost their jobs and a right to stock in the firm.
    The new business has said it has offered "almost half" the staff a post and will offer others the chance to do consultancy work.
    Customers have been told their service will not be interrupted. But analysts say the news may discourage others from investing in the sector.

    Bankruptcy alternative OnLive's new backer is the Silicon Valley-based venture capital group Lauder Partners.
    It bought the original company's technology, trademarks and patents after the OnLive's board used a technique known as "assignment for the benefit of creditors" - an alternative to bankruptcy.
    Lauder has not revealed how much it paid - but any cash from the sale is supposed to be used to pay off the original firm's debts before the remainder can be shared out among its investors.
    The statements from BT and HTC signal there might not be any cash left to divide.
    The British telecoms group said it had owned a 2.6% stake in the business. It declined to say how much this had been worth, beyond stating it did "not represent a significant investment for BT as a whole".
    HTC said it planned to recognise a $40m (£25m) loss. The firm paid that amount for a 3.8% stake in OnLive in 2011.
    The US telecoms operator AT&T and the media group Time Warner also owned shares in the business.
    Internet gaming Onlive is a pioneer of "on demand" cloud gaming services.
    The business was founded by Steve Perlman, a software engineer who had previously worked on Apple's Quicktime media player and created WebTV - one of the first products to link televisions to the internet, which he sold to Microsoft.
    OnLive sought to shake up the video games industry by offering subscribers the ability to play premium games console titles over the internet.
    Remote servers run the games software and stream the video footage to the user, who plays the game with the firm's gamespad, using a computer, smartphone or television - in the latter's case with the aid of a special adapter.
    The product's graphics and games controller-response times are not as good as those on a console, but OnLive offers convenience - and many industry insiders believe the technology will be widely adopted in the future.
    Earlier this year there had been reports that Sony might take over the business, but the Japanese company instead bought Gaikai - a rival service.
    Games news site Joystiq reported Mr Perlman had told his staff that part of the reason OnLive had failed to make a profit as an independent business was because it had signed contracts for 8,000 computer servers - but only had about 1,600 people using its service at any one time.
    However, the firm said it had 1.5 million "active users" in a later press release. The product is available in the US, UK and Belgium.
    Cloud gaming's future UK games industry body Tiga suggested on-demand gaming had a future whatever OnLive's problems.
    "There is no doubt that cloud gaming is innovative and exciting, with the potential to open up gaming to more players by streaming games direct to televisions, set-top boxes and consoles," said the organisation's chairman, Jason Kingsley.
    "Such infrastructures are undoubtedly expensive to set up and users still have to be convinced but this is likely to come, especially in the light of Sony's purchase of Gaikai."
    But one industry watcher said the weekend's events were likely to have wider ramifications.
    "There's no way another cloud gaming company will be able to raise the kind of funds OnLive did any more - at one point people were talking about the firm being worth about $1.8bn," said Ed Barton, director of digital media at Strategy Analytics.
    "Cloud gaming's technology is proven and the user experience will get better - so I think it has a place as a distribution service for games and other media going forward.
    "But Lauder may now prefer to focus on licensing OnLive's intellectual property to others rather than just offering a consumer focused service, bearing in mind the size of its user base."
    A statement from OnLive said: "All previously announced products and services, including those in the works, will continue and there is no expected interruption of any OnLive services."
    Source

    Saw this this morning and thought it would make an interesting discussion. The reason why I'm raising this is that OnLive was the biggest Cloud Gaming service out there and I do agree with the quote at the end of the article; we are very unlikely to see another cloud gaming service that has the sort of funding or market penetration that OnLive had. At least in the near future anyway.
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  • #2
    Re: Future of Cloud Gaming after OnLive Bankruptcy?

    I'm surprised cloud gaming is still a thing. Wouldn't the latency make real time games suck?

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    • #3
      Re: Future of Cloud Gaming after OnLive Bankruptcy?

      There aren't many countries that have the infrastructure to support it but for now it is pretty limited, mostly due to that reason. IIRC it's only Sweden, France, South Korea, Japan and maybe Germany that can really support it.
      Rahal Gerrant - Balmung - 188 DRK
      Reiko Takahashi
      - Balmung - 182 AST, 191 BLM, 182 SCH, 188 SMN
      Haters Gonna Hate



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      • #4
        Re: Future of Cloud Gaming after OnLive Bankruptcy?

        Back when OnLive was announced a few years ago, I thought very strongly that the economics would not work. Too much infrastructure cost, not enough bandwidth, too much latency.

        Turns out, I was right.

        Originally posted by Armando View Post
        I'm surprised cloud gaming is still a thing. Wouldn't the latency make real time games suck?
        Pretty much this. Unless you lived within a stone's throw of an OnLive server, latency tended to be very hit-and-miss, making any game that required any sort of reflexes pretty unplayable (i.e. shooters).

        It works fine if you're playing Civilization. Not so fine if you're trying to play Call of Duty.

        By the by, the same problems face Sony with their acquisition of Gaikai, which supports a somewhat similar cloud computing model (though not nearly so infrastructure-dependent).


        Icemage

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        • #5
          Re: Future of Cloud Gaming after OnLive Bankruptcy?

          The world is just not ready for it, but I can definitely see gaming and computing going that way in the not so distant future. It's cheaper, convenient and doesn't have hefty hardware requirements.

          One day.

          - - - Updated - - -

          PS > Same with network super gaming. But that will probably trigger the Singularity.
          sigpic
          "In this world, the one who has the most fun is the winner!" C.B.
          Prishe's Knight 2004-Forever.

          その目だれの目。

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          • #6
            Re: Future of Cloud Gaming after OnLive Bankruptcy?

            Its like Sony just invites economic problems, sometimes.

            Online was platform agnostic in theory, but no console platform embraced it. Sony is looking to make their cloud service platform-specific, which is almost a mockery of what cloud is supposed to be. Then again, Apple does it with iCloud, too.

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            • #7
              Re: Future of Cloud Gaming after OnLive Bankruptcy?

              The world is just not ready for it, but I can definitely see gaming and computing going that way in the not so distant future. It's cheaper, convenient and doesn't have hefty hardware requirements.
              I'd bet by the time we have the networking infrastructure for it, Moore's Law will have advanced the specs of even the suckiest computers faster than game developers can continue to increase the quality of game assets without going broke.

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              • #8
                Re: Future of Cloud Gaming after OnLive Bankruptcy?

                Originally posted by Armando View Post
                I'd bet by the time we have the networking infrastructure for it, Moore's Law will have advanced the specs of even the suckiest computers faster than game developers can continue to increase the quality of game assets without going broke.
                That's not really the point what OnLive (and Gaikai) are trying to do though. Both services try to make it so that using software is hardware-agnostic, so you won't have to sit there and upgrade your video card and CPU and memory every couple of years to play the latest games, and also de-mystify the process of playing older software that might otherwise break on new hardware/operating systems.

                The idea is not bad, the problem is that the execution is more expensive than it's worth (at least for the time being).


                Icemage

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                • #9
                  Re: Future of Cloud Gaming after OnLive Bankruptcy?

                  That's not really the point what OnLive (and Gaikai) are trying to do though. Both services try to make it so that using software is hardware-agnostic, so you won't have to sit there and upgrade your video card and CPU and memory every couple of years to play the latest games, and also de-mystify the process of playing older software that might otherwise break on new hardware/operating systems.
                  That's kind of what I was getting at. In theory devs could continue to make games that demand more powerful hardware, but eventually it'll become cost-prohibitive. Given enough time, even the suckiest PCs will handle top notch graphics - and then what's the point of cloud gaming?

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                  • #10
                    Re: Future of Cloud Gaming after OnLive Bankruptcy?

                    Originally posted by Armando View Post
                    That's kind of what I was getting at. In theory devs could continue to make games that demand more powerful hardware, but eventually it'll become cost-prohibitive. Given enough time, even the suckiest PCs will handle top notch graphics - and then what's the point of cloud gaming?
                    To control games like major networks, movie studios and record labels still try to control television, movies and music respectively.

                    Well, that's what it'd end up being. Once it became more viable, do you think Sony, EA, Ubi Soft or Activision would really want to leave a disc or digital download in your hands? Some of their current business practices speak otherwise.

                    Diablo is has an online DRM
                    The next SimCity does.
                    Pretty much every EA game has co-op or multiplayer forced on it to rationalize the online pass.
                    Ubi Soft just finds new, stupid ways to DRM their PC games.

                    Hell, Ubi Soft just opened their own PC storefront like EA did and why? Its just as pointless as Origin. They're not trying to compete with Steam or GoG.

                    Basically, if big third parties could take Sony and MS out of the hardware race and be able to go around Steam, the player would just deal with publishers directly via cloud. They'd love the hell out of being able to keep the code in their hands.
                    Last edited by Omgwtfbbqkitten; 08-21-2012, 04:54 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Future of Cloud Gaming after OnLive Bankruptcy?

                      Originally posted by Armando View Post
                      That's kind of what I was getting at. In theory devs could continue to make games that demand more powerful hardware, but eventually it'll become cost-prohibitive. Given enough time, even the suckiest PCs will handle top notch graphics - and then what's the point of cloud gaming?
                      For PC gaming, it's less important, as PC hardware and operating systems "tend" to be backward compatible, but even in the PC space there's a market for it. For instance, Linux and Mac users have basically had to settle for bread crumbs in terms of games they could play on their PCs without dual-booting. One of the more fascinating applications that OnLive showed off (but never managed to ship, likely because of Apple being control freaks) was an OnLive portal app for the iPad.

                      Sony's idea with Gaikai has some extra perks too. All of Sony's console hardware has been peculiar and weird. Difficult to emulate even with powerful hardware. If they can work out the technical kinks to get their service up and running, you could theoretically access your entire PlayStation library from any compatible device with a cloud client, without the need for a separate device for each game library. That is, of course, a gross oversimplification of the technical hurdles, but it gives you the gist of where I "think" Sony is going with their cloud computing idea, and in that specific case, there are definitely some upsides.

                      As for PCs... who knows where they're going to be in a few years? Moore's Law isn't perfect, and it will eventually fail because the pace of innovation in hardware will be unable to keep up with its exponential projection. Probably not in the next few years, but the tech we have today is already fairly efficient and miniaturized. In a decade, will we even have recognizable desktop computers as household items, or will they all be portable tablets like the Microsoft Surface? Or something else entirely? With a cloud computing model, those questions become less important because one-software-client-to-bind-them-all "could" make it less of a gamble for software developers.

                      Personally, I think OnLive was about 10-15 years ahead of its time. At some point, the graphical hardware will sort of max out to where the average user won't be care about the difference because it will be about as impactful as the difference between DVD and Blu-ray (the question of which was answered within a few years by Netflix). We're already pretty close to that point with respect to modern PC and console gaming, and when (not if) that happens, that's when these sorts of "gaming as a service" ideas could get a lot more traction than they are today.


                      Icemage

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                      • #12
                        Re: Future of Cloud Gaming after OnLive Bankruptcy?

                        Originally posted by Armando View Post
                        I'd bet by the time we have the networking infrastructure for it, Moore's Law will have advanced the specs of even the suckiest computers faster than game developers can continue to increase the quality of game assets without going broke.
                        That could be the case, or Silicon technology could hit it's limit and become prohibitive for practical purposes. And it's already happening as evidenced by the size increase of higher end systems.

                        So it becomes a race between computational and networking technology. Will there be a new technology to replace ADSL and others like it to exponentially increase the amount of data transferred using the same infrastructure or will we find the technology for the post-silicon processor era?

                        Cloud computing has the huge advantage that all it needs to do is achieve enough bandwidth to display images at full resolution on X device to work. After that it's all gains in local functionality and latency slaying. Think super slim laptops and netbooks that consist only of an OLED display with a plastic cover for protection and interface with a few Gigs of Solid State memory with a very slim processor just for interface, networking and video display. And both technologies aren't exclusive either. Hybrid systems would probably become the norm at some point with both local and cloud capabilities going beyond anything they could achieve separately.
                        sigpic
                        "In this world, the one who has the most fun is the winner!" C.B.
                        Prishe's Knight 2004-Forever.

                        その目だれの目。

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                        • #13
                          Re: Future of Cloud Gaming after OnLive Bankruptcy?

                          Good point with the OS problem. I'm still holding my breath and hoping Valve will pull through and bring more gaming to Linux.

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