Platinum Games writer on Japanese and Western game design.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

This was a really good read, from Jean Kellams, who coordinates localization for Platinum's games.

PlatinumGames Writer On What's "Wrong" With Japanese Games | Siliconera

The problems with Japanese games aren’t that they are JPN games or that they are Westernized games. The problems with JPN games are simple: Most of them aren’t very good games. People don’t buy those. Most games from anywhere aren’t good. That’s why exceptional means exceptional.
Most Japanese publishers/developers can’t invest money/manpower enough to compete with exceptional Western productions. Risk is too high. It costs money and sweat to make things stand out, but it also raises the risk. Then marketing is crazy expensive after that.

Games today sell on spectacle. Spectacle is also easy to market. However, good ideas lie behind these spectacles. So it makes me mad to see people diss “AAA” games like they are all rote executions on some tired formula. They sell because they are good. They match great production values with great execution on great ideas. They sell on easy to understand themes. Even Western games that don’t get that right fail. Just because you make a “dudebro” shooter doesn’t mean it is a sure thing.

Japanese games can be awesome. They can suck too. It is about picking ideas and themes that you can execute exceptionally on. Then you have to communicate that exceptionalism in a way that people understand that your game is exceptional. You have to do both, and you have to do both at a high level, or you will fail. It is just how the industry goes right now.

Japanese can make a highly Western game, Westerners can make highly Japanese games. These are talented creators on both sides. However, if you screw up executing on the ideas you are supposed to be executing on… You fail. Simple as that.

Where Japanese games need to get better is reducing friction. If we have the best ideas, we need to make sure you don’t have to wonder why. Friction means you need to look at a character and identify with what that character is supposed to represent. Friction means never underestimating the intelligence of your audience. Culturally, Japanese design is about being inclusive. They don’t want anyone left behind, so they will add friction to an experience. Except then you move at the pace of the slowest one in a group. It bogs the experience down for people who already get it.

Just imagine if you had to order McDonald’s like a Japanese game’s option menu. It would be horrific if you had ever been to a McD’s before. Can I take your order. Hamburger. Hamburger is a piece of meat, two buns, ketchup and mustard. Are you sure you want a hamburger? Yes. That is friction. Western games stop when the user says hamburger. They assume that user intent is initially correct. JPN games should too.

Friction for the sake of completeness is one of the things that makes it difficult for JPN developers to make good multiplayer, I think. Other place have friction. Culturally, I think our touch stones for classic character designs introduces a lot of friction into a narrative. It takes time for a Westerner to parse the boy hero archetype from Japanese design versus the young adult Superhero in Western design. Too often, Japanese design assumes you will “get it” regarding characters and doesn’t establish them. But the touchstones are different.

We can pull off that boy hero successfully, but we have to execute perfectly on the premise behind the character and communicate it. Another place where Japanese games tend to introduce friction is in narrative exposition. So many “bad story” complaints come from this.

By the way – Nintendo games are so awesome and so successful because they are some of the most friction free games in the world.

The fast food analogy actually works rather well. Most of the best games are the least obtuse or aloof in gameplay and why you don't have complex tutorials still seeping in ten hours into the game.

SE will give you three pages of prompts to read with flashy graphics to communicate it, but Persona 4 will give your hero a phone call briefly stating he has new cool things to do or check out in The Velvet Room. Skyrim or Xenoblade just layer it in with a concise, informative prompt here and there.

SE invades your space to coddle you, but the other examples trust your synapses are firing and the heart is beating. SE asks what you mean by "cheeseburger," the rest just go "Yes, you can has cheeseburger." And Nintendo has your cheeseburger almost the moment you say it. You just wanted a boomerang, but they give you one that you control the flight path of or even set on fire. You don't ask for the extras but like that you get them.

[Armando]

Re: Platinum Games writer on Japanese and Western game design.

There was a previous discussion on this on Kotaku, the reporter had talked to Miyamoto and asked him if he was concerned that it takes too long to get to the good part of some of their games these days. Especially Zelda. Anyhow one of the comments that stood out the most is that despite games getting more complex, people have stopped using instruction manuals and they've become just more marketing material that comes with the box. Maybe it's time to start using them for what they're for.

At the very least if you're going to throw in in-game tutorials and instructions they should be kept separate from the narrative and regular gameplay. Nothing breaks my immersion more than some on-screen prompt or NPC telling me, the player, how to do shit. I really liked Kirby Super Star's approach of "Hey! Have you played this before?" at the beginning of a new game. Noitu Love 2 and Mega Man X5 just put a "Training/Tutorial" option on the main menu. Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn has a tutorial menu in-game whose content expands as the game progresses and you can choose to ignore it altogether if you're a veteran.

But I think even worse than the Hamburger issue is the fact that once they finally give you the hamburger, the devs rarely trust you to know what to do with it. They cut it up for you into bite-sized pieces just in case you can't figure out it goes in your mouth. We're not dumb and children can be much cleverer than they think. While Skyward Sword did pretty well in that area when it came to dungeon puzzles, they treat you like an inebriated monkey when it comes to combat. I mean, yeah, the combat is really clever but when the enemy just stands right in front of me for 5 seconds and then switches to a different position instead of attacking me, you're treating me like a dumbass. I can see it's wide open in that one direction.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Platinum Games writer on Japanese and Western game design.

There was a previous discussion on this on Kotaku, the reporter had talked to Miyamoto and asked him if he was concerned that it takes too long to get to the good part of some of their games these days. Especially Zelda. Anyhow one of the comments that stood out the most is that despite games getting more complex, people have stopped using instruction manuals and they've become just more marketing material that comes with the box. Maybe it's time to start using them for what they're for.

The industry just needs to revisit instruction manuals in general. They used to be worth reading, and not just for figuring out how to play the game.

[Malacite]

Re: Platinum Games writer on Japanese and Western game design.

ust imagine if you had to order McDonald’s like a Japanese game’s option menu. It would be horrific if you had ever been to a McD’s before. Can I take your order. Hamburger. Hamburger is a piece of meat, two buns, ketchup and mustard. Are you sure you want a hamburger? Yes. That is friction. Western games stop when the user says hamburger. They assume that user intent is initially correct. JPN games should too.

This is one of my biggest peeves with JP games (and western news outlets for that matter, lol). I fucking HATE IT when the game just automatically assumes that the person playing is some mouth-breathing hick who never got past 3rd grade.

And then there's my personal favorite from Resident Evil - "Do you want to pick up the Handgun Bullets?" (can be any ammo) Why no, I do not wish to pick up the goddamned ammunition that might just save my ass from the legions of zombies and other misc horrors lurking about. Who needs bullets anyway!

/orz

EDIT: It also reminds me of the Mega Man Battle Network series. For the 1st two games I was willing to put up with the mandatory tutorial upon starting a new game. But they kept doing it right up to the 6th goddamn game. Honestly, if you're playing the 6th and final entry in a series and you still require the basic tutorial, you're retarded.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Platinum Games writer on Japanese and Western game design.

EDIT: It also reminds me of the Mega Man Battle Network series. For the 1st two games I was willing to put up with the mandatory tutorial upon starting a new game. But they kept doing it right up to the 6th goddamn game. Honestly, if you're playing the 6th and final entry in a series and you still require the basic tutorial, you're retarded.

Or you're a person who's never touched any of the previous games and is just getting into the franchise for the very first time.

Use your head Mal.

[Malacite]

Re: Platinum Games writer on Japanese and Western game design.

Tough shit then. Who the hell jumps into a continuous story at the very end skipping everything else? At the very least they could have made it skipable but no, it's mandatory. It's not even all that informative either, it's just more JPN assuming the player is a moron.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Platinum Games writer on Japanese and Western game design.

Tough shit then. Who the hell jumps into a continuous story at the very end skipping everything else?

You're in the wrong here. Just get over it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Platinum Games writer on Japanese and Western game design.

Tough shit then. Who the hell jumps into a continuous story at the very end skipping everything else?

People who are financially sane and don't feel the need to keep up with a series?

Megaman stories are the most throwaway stories I can think of - and Capcom has plenty of franchises that have throwaway stories.

[Armando]

Re: Platinum Games writer on Japanese and Western game design.

Megaman stories are the most throwaway stories I can think of - and Capcom has plenty of franchises that have throwaway stories.

That's only true for the classic and X series. Battle Network was an RPG with TCG elements, so of course it had a plot. Legends is was character-driven as fuck. Mega Man Zero was one big ongoing story.

It all still boils back down to keeping the tutorials out of the main game. Newbies can still go through them it if they need them, veterans aren't treated like newbs and told stuff they've known since 5 games ago.

[Firewind]

Re: Platinum Games writer on Japanese and Western game design.

SE will give you three pages of prompts to read with flashy graphics to communicate it, but Persona 4 will give your hero a phone call briefly stating he has new cool things to do or check out in The Velvet Room. Skyrim or Xenoblade just layer it in with a concise, informative prompt here and there.

You forgot Bioware who give you a short novel to explain every single bit of the game world, even the parts you are fully willing to suspend disbelief for because of the genre

And honestly I think it's just more simple that what the article says. Japanese developers just seem entirely unwilling to adapt to the changes of the gaming market really. I can't think of one that really seems to try and push it with game design and try to go into new territory. Every single one of them just seems to go with what is safe really which i why I do find myself frustrated with Japanese developers at times.

[Malacite]

Re: Platinum Games writer on Japanese and Western game design.

It all still boils back down to keeping the tutorials out of the main game. Newbies can still go through them it if they need them, veterans aren't treated like newbs and told stuff they've known since 5 games ago.

This x1000

Seriously why the hell didn't they make it optional, you know, like most games do?

[Aeni]

Re: Platinum Games writer on Japanese and Western game design.

I'm not sure what that developer was trying to say. Maybe it's because his English is bad (due to the fact that it's not his native tongue) or he has trouble articulating himself. The takeaway I get was he blames the instructional tutorial for why games are bad. Okay. Was that it? I mean, honestly, I could think of a million other reasons why a game would be bad but this had to be the most ignorant reasoning of them all. He also generalized ... heavily. It's not like this guy ever played a few ports beyond what is actually clogging up the distribution pipes in Japan.

What sells in Japan as opposed to what the Japanese has to offer to everyone else outside of the country are almost polar opposites. Let's face it, many Japanese games are not only steeped in their own "exclusive" pop culture but just their culture in general. Gamers tend to be frowned upon in Japanese society and the stigma is still strong there. Otaku is still a "bad" word, even if it is slowly becoming less so, it's nowhere near as accepted as "geek" or "nerd" in western society. So, the Japanese gaming industry, while still successful, has a very narrowly focused market to sell to. Nintendo will sell to the "kiddies", Sony will appeal to teens and up, and Microsoft ... well, they're struggling there, so I won't bother to talk about them.

This is why the translation and transition for developing games that appeal to people around the world can become difficult for Japanese developers. It's a very difficult process for them, either because they're used to a certain kind of demographic and their response to what they produce or they're just trying too hard to appease the masses.

You can easily see this for yourself on Google Play and poke around at the myriad of "asian" developed games and notice a trend in the motivations for developing their "gaming apps". I'm not excusing bad games, as the OP stated that bad games can be produced ANYWHERE around the world. However, to ignore cultural norms, values and "flavor" is to also be a bad developer. He didn't admit that gamers in the Western countries tend to favor certain genres. Hell, we're currently at war as a nation (and many EU nations as well who've contributed troops to the ISAF), so you can start there.

[Firewind]

Re: Platinum Games writer on Japanese and Western game design.

You also made a heavy generalisation yourself there by simply using the term "Western Countries". What sells in the US might just get average sales in France and completely and utterly flop in Germany.

Great example: the Dynasty Warriors series and the spin offs. It sells incredibly well in the UK, does well in Germany but goes down like a bucket of vomit in the US. The Disgaea series and most Atlus games also has a similar sales pattern.

There's the Total War games too. Cash Cow series in Europe and Israel, pretty popular in Australia but sees hardly any sales in North and South America.

Metroid is HUGE in the US but is only a niche game in Japan and often gets seen as just another generic shooter in Europe. Same with Zelda too, the HJapanese aren't big on games that involve a degree of exploration.

The PS3 is ridiculously popular in Poland and nobody there even owns a DS. It's not even possible to use XBox Live there too since to do anything with it, you need a foreign e-mail address which WILL cause Microsoft to unleash the banhammer on you.

Sega was immensely popular in Europe and South America in the 90's (The Master System is still supported in Brazil today and in the UK, Mega Drives still regularly sell for much more than the SNES and second hand game stores still carry Mega Drive games), Nintendo on the other hand were known simply as the guys who make Game Boys and Mario.

On another note: the N64 and Gamecube were basically the 360 of their generation in Japan, it was all about the PS1/2 with the occasional XBox imported.

In most of Europe, Sweden and Russia being the most notable examples, PC gaming is still very strong due to it being much cheaper than console gaming, and consoles seen as being the "elitist" or "rich kid" platform, and there are a number of notable developers for the platform. In the US console gaming is far more popular and affordable while in Japan, the PC isn't even considered a platform unless you like H-Games.

Actually in Europe even handheld consoles are being seen as the rich kid toys too since mobile gaming via Andriod or iOS is HUGE here, bigger than in Japan too if you go by market size.

Starcraft is a great example too. since strategy games and RPGs sell very well in Europe, Europe loves it though not quite as much as Warcraft, in the US it's only popular with Blizzard fans and in Japan you can't even play it. In South Korea on the other hand...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Platinum Games writer on Japanese and Western game design.

Great example: the Dynasty Warriors series and the spin offs. It sells incredibly well in the UK, does well in Germany but goes down like a bucket of vomit in the US. The Disgaea series and most Atlus games also has a similar sales pattern.

Atlus does quite well in the US, actually, its Europe where Atlus struggles since they don't have a foothold there. Add to that the fact is they support Nintendo heavily these days and Sony platforms at a lesser capacity. Oh and EU pirates the shit out of thier US releases as they convince themselves Atlus will "never" release it.

See: Catherine, Persona 4, Devil Survivor

And we wonder why platforms try region locked.