Next generation final fantasy tech demo from square enix

[Jarre]

[Kailea]

Re: Next generation final fantasy tech demo from square enix

wow, that was, different, but in a good way.

[Feba]

Re: Next generation final fantasy tech demo from square enix

Wow! I've never experienced gameplay that linear before. And I play a lot of on-rails shooters!

Or: Does FF really need to be set in a non-descript middle eastern country circa 2007?

[Icemage]

Re: Next generation final fantasy tech demo from square enix

We've always known that Square-Enix can put together a pretty game (see: Final Fantasy XIII). What we've yet to see is anyone over there taking the reins and actually making better-than-mediocre gameplay. I'm also pretty sure that while that tech demo might be "real-time", it's almost certainly not running real-time on current generation console hardware; much more likely to be PC.

Maybe this is Square-Enix's attempt to become the Epic of Japan, selling their engine as middleware.


Icemage

[Feba]

Re: Next generation final fantasy tech demo from square enix

Honestly, I'm not sure at this point if having a good engine means anything anymore. Creating all of the necessary resources in that high quality has got to consume so much capital that there's not much left over for anything else.

Either we're looking at a limit on graphics quality, a limit on gameplay breadth, procedurally generated content (Earth has proven that this can be beautiful; on the other hand, games would lose a lot of artistic design. There's a difference between sculpting something from scratch and just adding personal touches here and there), or some kind of sharing of resources between developers--Say, something along the lines of the way photoshop artists trade and share brushes, or in uglier terms, video game clipart. We could have a lot of 'house' models shared between games with similar visual styles; keep the house design itself more or less the same, add or remove a few details, bam done. Modders basically already do this. This would require either very pain in the ass copyright agreements if done on a game-by-game basis, or some kind of common shared resources pool for general use.

But hell, we already have virtual pop stars in Hatsune Miku and her flock. Why not go as far as virtual actors? Have fully rendered models with basic animations pre-loaded; more advanced animations added on an individual basis. Take your virtual actor, put them in make up, done. Hell, for worlds with hundreds of NPCs, people wouldn't even notice if a few games shared NPCs, especially if you change a few basic things (clothes, skin color, hair color). Even if it did, people go see movies despite knowing very well who the actors are; most actors don't take use out of the experience at all. Unless you've found yourself asking "Wait, why is Han Solo the president? LUCAS, STOP RUINING STAR WARS", this shouldn't be an issue for you.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Next generation final fantasy tech demo from square enix

SE showed a new engine. Now FFVII fanboys will want the game to be remade with these graphics. I hope it keeps not happening. They can't go on about this for three console generations, can they?

I still don't see a need for a new generation of consoles beyond the Wii U right now. It's just that better graphics are getting us less and less game in return and the current generation has only just started to turn things around in that regard. Plus some of the most successful, imaginative games these days don't even try to push the limits of hardware because they don't need to.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Next generation final fantasy tech demo from square enix

It's what I've been saying for years. Graphics don't matter. I'll be thrilled when the industry and players finally begin to understand what I've known for years and we start shifting the focus back onto more important aspects of game design.

[Taskmage]

Re: Next generation final fantasy tech demo from square enix

Graphics matter in games the same way looks matter in people. They get your foot in the door and make people pay attention to you hopefully long enough to appreciate your finer qualities. They just have drastically diminishing returns, and when advances in graphics come at the expense of more important things, the overall product is diminished. Clearly we agree that this is happening.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Next generation final fantasy tech demo from square enix

Only up to a point.

This video does a good job of articulating the issue I've had for years: Penny Arcade - Extra Credits – Graphics vs. Aesthetics

As usual I don't agree with everything in there, but it's a good starting point.

[Armando]

Re: Next generation final fantasy tech demo from square enix

They just have drastically diminishing returns

And pure graphical power isn't a substitute for good art direction either. I think we can all agree WindWaker looks pretty great and it's not because of the polygon count or detailed textures.

I like Feba's idea of copyleft game assets, but then again I like the idea of open/free anything, whether it's source code or hardware or something else entirely.

[Feba]

Re: Next generation final fantasy tech demo from square enix

I want to point out that my idea doesn't necessarily need to be copyleft. I'm refering more to an industry arrangement where major studios agree to share resources between each other and do a ton of asset recycling (actually, this would be most likely to start under a single major publisher such as EA or Actibliz deciding to use it as a cost-cutting measure) as a mutually beneficial cost cutting practice. This could easily be kept exclusive, which would have two major benefits-- one, most libre/gratis software games find their difficulty in producing decent art; sharing your models with everyone gives a huge aid to free software, which kinda discourages people from buying your game. Especially considering how many of those free/gratis games are clones already; give them literal copyleft access to your world and before long we start to see the same thing happen to video games that open source does to a lot of other software already-- they release a version that gives you more power to do what you want, that satisfies common complaints of the playerbase.

Two, and more importantly, right now those resources are the big obstacle to any upstart studios wanting to make a blockbuster commercial title. A game like MGS4 or FF13 is not possible without a huge graphics budget. But from a gameplay design standpoint, you can get by with far far less. Giving small studios access to power like that would give them a huge advantage in competition. You may as well socialize an advertising agency to represent the entire industry, for as much as you'd be aiding them.

[Raydeus]

Re: Next generation final fantasy tech demo from square enix

I agree with Feebs. Resource sharing at a basic level like this is what makes the mod community far superior and efficient than any Corporate machinery. You only have to work on a texture or item once and then add it to the library, which anyone can access and use to make their stuff and speed things up. You will still need to make your own stuff for specifics of your project of course but you'll save a ton of time and money on generics, and you will be making the library bigger by adding the things you've just created.

This makes HD asset creation and use way cheaper, faster and convenient.

[Malacite]

Re: Next generation final fantasy tech demo from square enix

Graphics matter in games the same way looks matter in people. They get your foot in the door and make people pay attention to you hopefully long enough to appreciate your finer qualities. They just have drastically diminishing returns, and when advances in graphics come at the expense of more important things, the overall product is diminished. Clearly we agree that this is happening.

Not sure if I'd go that far on your first point but SE has definitely been sacrificing too many important elements just to have the prettiest RPGs out there and it's really bit them in the ass (rightly so). I feel like graphics can really help a game and dramatically impact the immersion, provided of course that they don't compromise the game in other areas. Hopefully now they've gotten their shit together though. FFXIV 2.0 for example has been very encouraging, as the new engine is looking great and every patch leading up to it so far has had pretty good story telling in the quests. I just hope Yoshi P isn't the only one at SE who's gotten the message.


I for one loved that video, if nothing else for the guy getting shot and actually dieing (they even showed blood for once, omg). It was cool too seeing her use her magic on that bottle to make it into an elixir or w/e.

[Taskmage]

Re: Next generation final fantasy tech demo from square enix

I suppose it depends on how much you think looks matter in people.

[Malacite]

Re: Next generation final fantasy tech demo from square enix

That's not what I was implying and you know it.