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Why Xenoblade would have only been possible on the Wii

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  • #46
    Re: Why Xenoblade would have only been possible on the Wii

    It's a bit different to make a retro first person dungeon crawl and Mass Effect.

    Here is a kind of old RPG where we once had to rely on graph paper to make maps and imagine what things looked like in a wireframe dungeon or just text. For that genre, the is no high visual standard, textures and reskins are now suddenly something you can get away with as padding.

    And your audience and publishers have a totally different set of expectations from console gamers and massive third party publishers. That helps, too.

    It's almost as nice to be a small indie studio with a loyal niche audience as it is a Nintendo first or second party. There is a ton of freedom to make the game you and your customers want there.

    As for the rest industry vs. gaming experience - strongly disagree.

    There's a reason gamers are justifiably upset at Capcom and Bioware, it's because the men holding the leash think they can just make them go "I'm the developer. Trust me. Help me. We're on your side."

    And then someone with "light" expertise changes one line of code and makes the developer look like an asshole and becomes a target of thier ire. See, just haveing a mild corporate experience is enough to let you see the politics. That's really all they need to see.

    So yes, the folks who make Legend of Grimlock can do what Bioware can't. It's the difference of big corporations and small private business/indie studios. I don't need technical expertise to understand the pressure of a job. I've been in the pressure cooker. I've had to be part of productions that had only weeks or sometime hours within on day to get done and my reward is hate mail and experience constantly questions.

    You got 50/50 on hate and praise, so you learn to live with the hate. Chris Priestly - on public actions alone - shows me he misses the asskissing he and his friends used to get. The localization teams at Atlus get the 50/50, for obvious reason like guys much much worse than Raydeus could ever get.

    I know games aren't made by magic, so don't tell me I can't see the man behind the curtain operating the mighty Wizard of Oz.

    Oh, and since you like to keep citing Rage by iD Software - their CEO makes expensive model rockets and launches them in his spare time. iD is a studio that has a lot of privilege, money and freedom that most developers wish they could have. They're kind of in that same set of special cases like Monolith Soft and Almost Human Games live in. Anyone that knew what Doom was and also live and breathe first person shooters is going to buy them from the grandaddy of the genre. As such, they get to make their own deadlines.

    Rage is pretty much all they did this gen, too. The fact that they're the only case that you can present me as proof it can be done proves my point.

    You have to be in a very precious position in this industry to milk any console to its fullest potential. You have to be an iD Software, Kojima Productions, Nintendo, 343 Studios - all of which stand worlds apart from your bog standard third party. Even Eidos is now in this unusually cushy position. There are most certainly benefits there lots of studios don't have. And one of those business are run by artists and game developers, so its hardly surprising Nintendo could create the environment to pull it off.
    Last edited by Omgwtfbbqkitten; 04-30-2012, 12:17 AM.

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    • #47
      Re: Why Xenoblade would have only been possible on the Wii

      Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
      <stuff>
      None of this is has anything to do with the original premise of the topic, which is that Xenoblade could only be made on the Wii. It's just not true.

      I know games aren't made by magic, so don't tell me I can't see the man behind the curtain operating the mighty Wizard of Oz.
      I'm not saying you can't see him, and no, they're not made by magic. I'm saying you have no basis to speak as him because you don't understand the fundamentals (let alone the nuances) about what you're saying - and no, extensive reading of gaming blogs and sites does not confer any such information unless you're a regular reader of Ars Technica and Gamasutra. Even that is only true if you understand said articles, some of which are so esoteric that I can't even follow them as an experienced programmer with a fair bit of practical experience. For that matter, the author of the article you linked is equally uninformed, and commits the same error (maybe intentionally to draw page hits? I don't know.).

      There simply is no reason at all to believe a game like Xenoblade can't exist on any other platform. There are no distinguishing characteristics about the game that preclude something similar from being made elsewhere. All the same tricks that Monolith used can be used on other platforms, and the work environment that produced it also exists elsewhere (by your own admission).

      Does anyone else in the industry actually want to make such a game? I don't know, probably not. But there's a huge divide between "No one else feels the need to make a game like this" and "This sort of game can't be made on any other platform." The two statements are not synonymous.


      Icemage

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      • #48
        Re: Why Xenoblade would have only been possible on the Wii

        Here is a concept.... how about you all play Xenoblade because it is a very good RPG, and stop with all this console bull shit? It is plan fact that, for this game at least, it could not have been on any system other then Wii, due to the company it came from. That said I would love to see a similar game come out for another console, but as others have said, I don't think it would have that same "magic" as XB does.
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Kain (FFIV): I am aware of my actions, but can do nothing about them.

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        • #49
          Re: Why Xenoblade would have only been possible on the Wii

          Does anyone else in the industry actually want to make such a game? I don't know, probably not. But there's a huge divide between "No one else feels the need to make a game like this" and "This sort of game can't be made on any other platform." The two statements are not synonymous.
          I don't buy for a second that studios don't want to make games that dream big. If HD consoles were a friendly environment for JRPGs we'd see a continuance of the PS2's amazing legacy on the PS3.

          I don't think the wank Nippon Ichi publishes on PS3 is quite enough to qualify. The best JRPGs between PS3 and 360 pale in comparison to what PS2 had and the biggest games this generation tend to bear familar names and come from the more priviledged studios that can afford to pull of massive scale games in HD. I don't know about you, but if the next consoles are capable of the higher resolutions new prototype TVs are sporting I have a feeling things are going to move further in favor of handhelds and tables and indie PC development.

          As much as I dislike Kitase, he's right, this generation just doesn't create the kind of environment that could make an Advent Children scall FFVII remake possible.

          Not that I want one, but I understand why it can't happen.
          Last edited by Omgwtfbbqkitten; 04-30-2012, 06:19 AM.

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          • #50
            Re: Why Xenoblade would have only been possible on the Wii

            FFVII could be remade in HD. The game's scope would need to be scaled down, but the experience would still be there. If you guys will remember, there were a lot of mini-games and less-than-useful moments that could be excluded to cut down on costs. A remake would probably be a better option, since they could redefine the project's expectations, iterate on previous game systems (such as magic and materia), incorporate a better synergy with prequels and sequels, and potentially include voice actors.

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            • #51
              Re: Why Xenoblade would have only been possible on the Wii

              Originally posted by DakAttack View Post
              FFVII could be remade in HD. The game's scope would need to be scaled down, but the experience would still be there. If you guys will remember, there were a lot of mini-games and less-than-useful moments that could be excluded to cut down on costs. A remake would probably be a better option, since they could redefine the project's expectations, iterate on previous game systems (such as magic and materia), incorporate a better synergy with prequels and sequels, and potentially include voice actors.
              Then why bother making it for HD consoles if its just going to be a glorified reskin of the PSX game?

              If you just reskin FFVII with better graphics then Vita and 3DS are perfectly viable options. You can play FFVII on Vita or PSP now. well, once Sony fixes that PS Classics problem for Vita, anyway.

              And just for the sake of argument Hajima Tabata has considered remaking Before Crisis FFVII for 3DS, he already has assets created for PSP's Crisis Core that could be reused or improved.

              Its kind of the same issue with Kingdom Hearts. Why make a PS3 game from the ground up when the KHII engine still looks good and can be used for PSP, 3DS and Vita? Why do you think they've not gotten around to or announced a KH3? Because they can reuse old assets and rake in money, that's why.

              If you're not going to improve the scale of something like FFVII, there's really no good reason to do an HD remake - even if you just did HD prerenders for everything.

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              • #52
                Re: Why Xenoblade would have only been possible on the Wii

                Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
                I don't buy for a second that studios don't want to make games that dream big.
                Nintendo had to be convinced to bring Xenoblade outside of Japan, and you believe this?


                Icemage

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                • #53
                  Re: Why Xenoblade would have only been possible on the Wii

                  HD is the good reason, amongst others.

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                  • #54
                    Re: Why Xenoblade would have only been possible on the Wii

                    Originally posted by Icemage View Post
                    Nintendo had to be convinced to bring Xenoblade outside of Japan, and you believe this?
                    You're twisting the facts now.

                    Nintendo of America needed to be convinced. This game was being localized for Europe not too long after its Japanese release. NOJ clearly wanted this game out west as there's very little Nintendo first parties do that don't make it out west. Plus the game had western design elements. Gamestop even saw the demand for it or they wouldn't have acquired exclusive distribution rights. Lots of things made Xenoblade happen in America before Reggie could even be bothered.

                    Don't forget SCEA was the same way with Demon's Souls. They played it, decided it sucked/was too hard (and these are the real reasons given by SCEA).Had Atlus not intervened, we wouldn't have that game now. Same thing with Xseed and The Last Story, really Xseed will do nothing but benefit. They don't have to localize anything, just distribute it. NOA now gets less money as a result.

                    This also isn't the first instance of games being denied by Nintendo or Sony and picked up by a third party. Cubivore and Lifeline are two games that spring to mind.

                    What Japanese developers want to do, what they make and what American publishers think people want are two different things. NOA and SCEA would do well to stop assuming too much about the tastes of their market.

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