the best RPG, Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk2 coming February 28! pre-order recommended!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: the best RPG, Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk2 coming February 28! pre-order recommend

He probably prefers they don't sound offensive to the ears.

First off, you have to dispose of the "Raydeus Scale of Terrible English dubs" because whatever he sets as terrible actually is average or better - such as a Tales game or FFX respectively. If those are ranked as terrible, then nothing can ever be truly good.

Meanwhile, we have your scale, which is anything that is truly horrible is people turning in Oscar-winning performances. So this is a scale we cannot accept either. The original Resident Evil is practically Shakespeare to you, you get goosebumps where hearing the english dub to Onimusha II while I want to rip out my eardrums.

So let's just assume a Tales game is average, neither exceeding or totally failing and we'll putFFX at "better." "Great" would be FFXII, Persona 3 and 4 or most western games. Behind Tales we see Resident Evil in the "bad but good" zone Acceptable for what it is, as Resident Evil is actually supposed and expected to be bad. Its a guilty pleasure kind of bad. Deadly Premonition would also be here as being terrible is at the heart of what makes it amusind.

Then we fall back to Onimusha II, which is just bad. It makes you literally value the inclusion of the Japanese dub because now ignorance is bliss - at least until the women start wailing like banshees. So this is the "awful" part of the scale.

Then we have "Truely Terrible" which is where many of your favorites live, J9. These are games made quickly and localized ASAP for a cash grab from gullible people willing to settle for anything. Basically, you can be excited about this tripe and I'll just go play Xenoblade, Devil Survivor, The Last Story or a Bioware game where my money is better spent on all fronts.

[Raydeus]

Re: the best RPG, Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk2 coming February 28! pre-order recommend

The problem with the Raydeus Scale is that it's a dynamic system that uses the Original language* of the media as the base reference value. Which for the most part tends to be far superior than the translation/localization/dubbing could ever be regardless of the actual language of the localization.**

Meaning, that while English dubbing is indeed usually terrible, it's Awfulness rating isn't any different from Japanese or Spanish localizations of English media. They all utterly suck, and should be replaced with subtitles instead.

Of course, there are (very few) exceptions.

* This being the fundamental part of it.
**Except for cases of complete cultural insensibility that is.

[Armando]

Re: the best RPG, Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk2 coming February 28! pre-order recommend

They all utterly suck, and should be replaced with subtitles instead.

Or, you know, we could just raise the standard on what's acceptable voice acting.

[Raydeus]

Re: the best RPG, Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk2 coming February 28! pre-order recommend

Problem isn't the voice acting itself but the inherent inefficiency of translations and localizations. In way too many cases there simply aren't linguistic and/or cultural equivalents for much of the stuff that is being said. So the best translators can do is try to approximate the meaning to the closest there is in the target language, while also being limited to the rhythm of the original actor's speech. On subs you can easily get away with using more or less words to get the message across, but not in dubbing.

That alone changes not only the original meaning, but also affects the voice acting significantly.

Now, oddly enough I don't actually believe voice acting in places like the US is bad. On the contrary, US voice acting is pretty good... for things created in and for the English language. If you need proof all you need to do is look at all the DCAU series among so many others. Why is it that the exact same actors can do such a great job in animations such as Justice League or Invader Zim, but fail so miserably when it comes to dubbing anime and anime based games?

The answer: Damaged content due to localization. The degree of damage may vary with the localization skills of the translator and the quality of the voice actor, but it will always be there for everyone to see.



PS > Another example, look at the games and anime with actual good dub quality. Cowboy Beebop, Metal Gear Solid, etc. The localization for those is more successful because it's material that by all intents and purposes is much more culturally closer to NA than it is to Japan. So not only actors can identify with the content in a much higher degree, but localization is almost not required as the original setting itself was localized from creation.

[Armando]

Re: the best RPG, Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk2 coming February 28! pre-order recommend

If there isn't an equivalent in the target language then subtitles won't fare any better at conveying the message. I don't think the rhythm thing is an issue for video games since you can modify the 3D models to stretch or shorten the scene. FFXII didn't seem to suffer in any way, other than Vaan being an obnoxious character but that's not the VA's fault.

[Raydeus]

Re: the best RPG, Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk2 coming February 28! pre-order recommend

As I mentioned, subs have the advantage of being able to use way more (or way less) words to convey the meaning, while also being able to even include translator notes. Some games may allow for changes to character animation to accommodate the different pacing but they can't do much about the lack of linguistic and cultural equivalents for way too many phrases and attitudes. In those cases seeing and listening to the original reaction of the character coupled with a decent translation is by far a better way of conveying the meaning of the scene.

And Fan subbing has proven that time and again over the years.

---------- Post added at 09:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 PM ----------

PS > As have games like NA Valkyria that include the original language and subs in addition to dubbing.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: the best RPG, Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk2 coming February 28! pre-order recommend

I'm sure Metroid Other M was a very compelling story in Japanese, the problem is that it was localized 1-to-1 with the Japanese because Nintendo was pushing for a worldwide release. As such, there was no time for editing it into a western context.

So we get a lot of expository meandering from Samus because the game could not be recut. Ghost in the Shell has a good deal of expository meandering, but the difference is they had the time to record it into a context Americans could find palatable. The actors did not do any wrong by their characters in Other M, its just the script was shit and the Treehouse wasn't given the time to salvage it - they were forced to go 1:1 with the Japanese, even though they didn't keep the option for Japanese.

And being in Japanese would not have saved it because the story was shit.

You will have a story that is shit in Japanese and English and prefer it in Japanese because you cannot detect the shit in Japanese and just assume the English dub is shit before hearing it.

[Armando]

Re: the best RPG, Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk2 coming February 28! pre-order recommend

As I mentioned, subs have the advantage of being able to use way more (or way less) words to convey the meaning, while also being able to even include translator notes.

Translator notes are only practical when you can pause the video.

In those cases seeing and listening to the original reaction of the character coupled with a decent translation is by far a better way of conveying the meaning of the scene.

The reaction could be reproduced by a good VA. What matters is the semantics of the translation itself.

[Raydeus]

Re: the best RPG, Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk2 coming February 28! pre-order recommend

You will have a story that is shit in Japanese and English and prefer it in Japanese because you cannot detect the shit in Japanese and just assume the English dub is shit before hearing it.

Well yeah, if you have a crap story and don't understand the language anyway then if you really must watch the content then you'll go with the original language by default. But if you understand the original language and see how bad the story and acting is then I don't see a reason to buy the game/movie/etc. I've skipped quite a few games and others because of that, both in English and Japanese.

There's just too much good content out there to waste your time with things that are trash even in their original language.

[jenova_9]

Re: the best RPG, Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk2 coming February 28! pre-order recommend

HN Mk2 's english voices are totally fine and they fit, mew! That's how I feel and that's that! =^^=

[cidbahamut]

Re: the best RPG, Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk2 coming February 28! pre-order recommend

You're still wrong.

[jenova_9]

Re: the best RPG, Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk2 coming February 28! pre-order recommend

MEEEW! SSQUEEEEEEEE!

I completed the true story and oh mew it's SOOO EMOTIONAL!!!!!!! So much positive mewness!!! =^^=

I give this rpg 10 out of 10 mews and the mew mew stamp of approval! =^^=

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: the best RPG, Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk2 coming February 28! pre-order recommend

Somehow i get the feeling the even with the endings to Mass Effect 3 being what they are, it was all better and more coherent than this game.

I'm giving Mass Effect 3 a ton of credit there, by the way.

[cidbahamut]

Re: the best RPG, Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk2 coming February 28! pre-order recommend

the mew mew stamp of approval! =^^=

Read: Do not purchase. Ever.

[Kailea]

Re: the best RPG, Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk2 coming February 28! pre-order recommend

I liked the first game, and I am sure I will like the second, a bit over perverted for me at times, but I like the theme of the two games and enjoyed it over all.

I would not give the first game a 10/10 more like a 7/10 and the second game will most likely get the same score from me. It would have been higher, but the VA could have been a little better and it could have been a little more serious.