Street Fighter X Tekken

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

Caught this nice little documentary-style video earlier. It's the history of Poison by MegatonHammer. It goes on for 19 minutes but it pretty much covers everything about her.

[Ufgt]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

My objections really lie in making Guard Impact pointless, phasing out most of the female cast for younger replacements while not doing the same for the male cast - Ivy and Cervantes get a pass only because they're cursed - and that armor breaks that started in IV are now just leaving players in unbalanced positions.

I'll give it a chance after a price drop, as it is the first real improvement to the series since SCII - though that's really just saying its not as good as SCII, but sucks a lot less than III and IV did.



No, it has the same exact problems SFIV. They don't teach anyone how to play - the tutorial was vague and horrible - and it favors rushdown/projectile whores. Living in the 90s is cool, but the series needs to accept the arcades are dead and do something to bring in new players. It fails on every level in that regard.

I was never a big SNK fan and KoFXIII did nothing to change my mind about that.



I think you're confused. The art style is heavy pencils and watercolors. I actually like the style as it brings the Tekken characters into balance with how SF characters look.

So far its looking like combo strings for this game are muted (because Tekken takes that too far sometimes) and the projectile element has been heavily factored in so Tekken's cast doesn't get creamed for mostly not having them. In fact some of of the properties to projectiles seem to have changed entirely or can be negated. It seems that unlike Capcom Vs. SNK or SNK vs. Capcom that SFXT is striving for an actual middle ground between the franchises, which is what Street Fighter Vs. X-Men did before it evolved into MVC.

I do have concerns about how the Gem System will pan out, but then, you can also likely count on Capcom to allow for custom matches where those probably can't even be used.

Yaaaahhhh... no.

GIs are not pointless, they're actually amazing for 1/2 a bar. And many of the characters can build that half a bar back from the following combo post GI. And GI covers everywhere with a single command. It's a really useful tool for characters with slower normals. Guard crushes keep the game aggressive, which is a good thing. Although if you do get guard crushed, you pretty much lose the round (that's why 3/5 is the default instead of 2/3).

How in the world does KOFXIII have the same problems as SFIV? You can't honestly expect a tutorial to teach you how to play a fighting game, right? FGs require a specific mindset that is trained over a long period of time. No FG tutorial will be the genre justice. You are also aware that rushdown and "projectile whoring" (aka zoning) are 2 completely different play styles. How does it favor both? And there is a very strong mixup game since many of the characters have command grabs. KOF values controlling space either through strong fundamentals or safe on block specials to create pressure situations for your opponent. The reversal window is smaller and uppercuts have less invicibility. You need to be technically and mechanically sound in order to to touch of death combos. And the 3v3 format creates so many nuanced situations in meter management, team selection, and team order. I don't think you really understand KOF before you brushed it off.

The aesthetics in SFxT are hard on the eyes. The colors are over saturated, and the color scheme itself looks bad. It's like Michael Bay got in there after they created the base UI to give it this unnecessary explosion of colors that don't match well and are too bright. And LOL GEMS.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

You're really just making the following clear:

You don't know anything about SCII and why it was still better than this. They make GIs use meter biw, but then make it easy to get meter back, yet there seem to be better things for any character to use that meter on. What I find hilarious is that you don't see that from SCII to SCV that we've gone from a fast paced game that encourags a smart use of defense to a game where playing defensively is discouraged and less advantageous. Soul Calibur II wasn't broken and would work very well in today's market - even stand out for what a smart game it is - but Project Soul keeps trying to fix it anyway.

Meanwhile you're content that KoF doesn't really change that much at all. You enjoy it for the very reasons its getting totally left behind with the arcades and support its obtuse learning curve. You seem to champion the idea that to learn the game is just a matter of going online and keep on getting your face beat in. That was fine when I was in my late teens and early 20s with all the time in the world and a pocket full of tokens. It was fine when your trash talk had a face to it rather than a mic and an online handle.

Its not fine now. SNK is as bad, if not worse, than Capcom is about teaching you the ropes. I don't have time for it.

But anything that brings in new people? Anything that grows the fighting audience? You'll shit on that. You'll freak out about gems, which are not end-all/be-all and just something to lower the barrier of entry a little. You know, make the game inviting to newcomers who deserve some kind of a fighting chance? I've done a fair bit of watching videos for this one, to the point I've seen how much Gems seem to fall to the wayside once people have gotten a handle on how the game works. The properties of various cross attacks are smartly designed, too, with a huge emphasis on risk/reward for using them.

And Capcom has been more than happy to get this one in player's hands weeks ahead of release to let them make all manner of videos from simply fun ones showing off all the supers and cross attacks to some deeply informative tutorial vidoes. Its not something Atlus USA could have done for KOFXIII.

And, yeah, let's just look at that for a second. I love Atlus USA to pieces, but SNK Playmore has to go to them now to get a game out at all. I mean, I guess it just behooves them to go to a rival for help, but I think Capcom would have put a lot more on the line to promote and publish such a game. Ono seems to really care about keeping fighters out there in the limelight rather than be content to let them fade and become relics of the 90s. He probably would have gone to bat for KOF and given it this kind of promotion SFXT had.

Hell, the fact that Arc System Works has more mindshare in the fighting community now than SNK says a lot. I care more about a Persona-flavored fighter right now than I ever have cared about KOF. And not because its Persona, but because its ASW. I may not like Blazblue as much as I did Guilty Gear, but both have made more effort to get me interested than any SNK fighter ever has.

[Ufgt]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

I actually have no idea if YOU know much about high level FGs and the mind games involved.

Re: SCII and SCV
How is adding a guard break mechanic BAD? If anything, it encourages even smarter use of all defensive options. It makes reading your opponent even more important, especially once guard crush is imminent. I certain you know that "defensive options" means more than just blocking... Yes, it rewards aggression, but not mindless aggression. Every button has a counter. Both players still need to play intelligently and win those RPS battles. And I never said SVII was bad. I am not sure how you got that one. The addition of meter makes SCV a fundamentally WORSE game, but it still has merits as a good fighting game.

Re: KOF
Go play 98, 2K1, 2k2, XI, and XIII and tell me that KOF hasn't changed. Every iteration has new mechanics, and every iteration has new characters. On top of new characters, existing characters go through permanent change. Iori, arguably KOFs flagship character, had a complete remake in his moveset. Now look at Guile from SF. He hasn't received a new move in 15 years. Yah.

The expectation you set that every fighting game has to teach you how the play the entire genre is flawed. I don't buy Call of Duty or Halo expecting those games to teach me how to aim. That's something I have to learn on and improve on my own. Every competitive game has learning outside the boundries of the game. That's the entire point of having this vast communities. Everyone learns and teaches everyone else. When the developers make a fighting game, they have the basic understanding that the people who buy it will know how to press buttons, because that is the sole prerequisite to playing. Does that mean you will be good? No, but it's your perogative you get better.

Capcom games have no tutorial mode, SNK games have a tutorial mode of little worth, Guilty Gear certainly had no tutorial mode, Blaz had a tutorial DVD in the Calamity Trigger collectors edition that had an okay tutorial. And since you are using capcom as you measuring stick... they have not yet released a single tutorial on links, plinks, or superjump cancels. All intermediate tactics required to succeed in SFIV. Atlus, on the other hand, has released tutorial videos for every mechanic found in KOFXIII.

KOF also has a massive international fanbase, with players from Europe, Japan, Brazil, Mexico, Korea, China, and Hong Kong confirmed for Evo2K12. Just because it's not popular in North America doesn't mean it's not successful.

The only reason SNK needed Atlus is because they made a terrible KOFXII, so they could no longer self publish. It's been a super beneficial relationship for both companies though, so I have a feeling they will continue to work together.

[Armando]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

The expectation you set that every fighting game has to teach you how the play the entire genre is flawed. I don't buy Call of Duty or Halo expecting those games to teach me how to aim. That's something I have to learn on and improve on my own. Every competitive game has learning outside the boundries of the game. That's the entire point of having this vast communities. Everyone learns and teaches everyone else. When the developers make a fighting game, they have the basic understanding that the people who buy it will know how to press buttons, because that is the sole prerequisite to playing. Does that mean you will be good? No, but it's your perogative you get better.

If you're aiming for competitive levels of competence, joining the community is practically mandatory. However, if the single player mode doesn't guide a new player along the correct way to play, it creates a gigantic disconnect when the new player actually joins the community.

To give a concrete example: Competitive Pokemon requires knowledge of game mechanics that the single player mode will never, EVER attempt to explain to you. It doesn't matter how good you got at the game while playing through the single player mode, you're going to be torn to itty bitty pieces by any competitive player. The same thing happens in fighting games. That's a problem.

It's especially shameless for fighting games not to teach you how to play them because the entire game is nothing more than an engine and some art assets. There's no campaign, the story is almost non-existent and the one-player mode is nothing but the two-player mode played against bots. Plus, the same engine and a good chunk of the assets get reused with every revision. It's not unreasonable to expect some some half-decent single player content.

Capcom games have no tutorial mode, SNK games have a tutorial mode of little worth, Guilty Gear certainly had no tutorial mode, Blaz had a tutorial DVD in the Calamity Trigger collectors edition that had an okay tutorial.

The fact that every other game is inadequate at something doesn't mean yours isn't inadequate too.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

When you have games like DoA: Dimensions, Dissidia and Smash Bros. out there with proper and engaging tutorials, there are no excuses for others within the genre not having the same kinds of modes. I to this day don't believe DOA to be the best of the best, but they made the effort to teach in DoA:D and won my respect again through that alone. it was a substantial - if laughable - story campaign that switched up characters and conditions to show you how to play DOA.

Dissidia does it, too, as does Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

Soul Calibur was actually good about this in SCII and SCIII, but its since fallen into neglect.

SFIV and MVC3 never bothered with it.

KOF XIII's attempt was halfassed. I accept part of it is probably localization restrictions Atlus USA had to adhere to, but who's fault is that? SNK Playmore's.

While I doubt SFXT will have an adequate tutorial, Capcom has made a rather huge campaign of getting instructional videos and early copies into the hands of EVO players so everyone knows the mechanics before jumping in. I do find this an acceptable alternative rather than having to scour the entire internet for information or buy a strategy guide. Its all out there and easy to find now.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

Capcom never fails to fail on the DLC front.

12 Characters were found on-disc that aren't available in the game. They will be made available as a package for $20. Yes, for data already on the disc.

Additionally, two costume packs - which Capcom was showing off since last summer - can be downloaded for $13 each. One dresses up Tekken characters as Capcom fighters and the other dresses up Street Fighter people as Namco characters.

So for an actual, complete game Capcom wants $106 before taxes.

Its like Capcom and Bioware are competing for who can be shittier about DLC.

What makes this really bad, though, is that we know these characters will be included in the Vita version at $39.99 with no added cost (though probably with static backgrounds like UMVC3 Vita and SSFIV3D on 3DS).

I guess I'll just wait for Persona 4 Arena and get this one out of the used bin.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

Tekken producer Harada: No DLC characters for us | Joystiq

Not too surprising considering how many Tekken characters are alraedy slated for Tekken Tag Tournament 2 and other versions of the game, but still enough of a contrast to make what Capcom did with SFXT look even more stupid.

[Icemage]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

Tekken producer Harada: No DLC characters for us | Joystiq

Not too surprising considering how many Tekken characters are alraedy slated for Tekken Tag Tournament 2 and other versions of the game, but still enough of a contrast to make what Capcom did with SFXT look even more stupid.

I've always felt Harada was a really straight shooter, but while I absolutely agree with what he's saying about the different characters in a fighting game roster fitting together like chess pieces, I wonder how much influence he will have when push comes to shove.

Consider: Namco-Bandai has not been shy about releasing DLC (I've got a train-load of stuff I "could" buy for Tales of Graces f, for instance). Soul Calibur, another N-B fighting game franchise, DOES have downloadable characters, though obviously not to the extent of the various SF games.

Still, I hope he's right and Tekken X Street Fighter ends up being a better game for it.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

NB didn't push DLC on Dark Souls, either. In fact, I haven't heard of them pulling their infamous on-disc DLC antics in a good long while. Maybe the backlash that they got for doing it in previous years at least got them to stop.