Street Fighter X Tekken

[Icemage]

I was going to let this game sort of go by the wayside, but then Capcom releases this Street Fighter X(cross) Tekken trailer:

Megaman fans: You can't mess w/ Limp Bizkit, Capcom!
Capcom: Keep Trollin', Trollin' Trollin'!

Seriously, I haven't laughed so many bitter tears in quite some time.

Mega Man fans finally get him in a game! But wait... it's... box art MM1 Rock Man, who looks like he's been taking diet advice from Rufus. AND he's exclusive to Sony platforms. Just... freaking lol. Can't stop laughing at the absurdity.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

Its not just Bad NES Box Art Megaman, it seems he's put on many, many pounds since we last saw him.

Are these really character's though, or just two more reskins. Pac-Man is riding that Tekken dummy, but there doesn't seem to be much difference otherwise. Megaman might just be another reskin for Rufus.

[Icemage]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

Its not just Bad NES Box Art Megaman, it seems he's put on many, many pounds since we last saw him.

See my stealth edit! XD

Are these really character's though, or just two more reskins. Pac-Man is riding that Tekken dummy, but there doesn't seem to be much difference otherwise. Megaman might just be another reskin for Rufus.

They're definitely distinct characters. That Pac-Man ultra is definitely distinct from Mokujin's usual borrow-everyone-else's-moves shtick, and Rufus doesn't have ice-based moves.


Icemage

[Raydeus]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

That's not Rockman, that's RockmanOtakuMan. XD

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

They're definitely distinct characters. That Pac-Man ultra is definitely distinct from Mokujin's usual borrow-everyone-else's-moves shtick, and Rufus doesn't have ice-based moves.

Perhaps, but I kind of doubt they're as balanced out as Cole if they're talking about them this late. Platform exclusive characters seldom pan out well. I have more confidence that Ezio will turn out well for SC5 than most of these platform-exclusive characters. I'm sure he'll also be more relevant than Yoda, Darth Vader, Link, Heihachi and Spawn.

Platform exclusive characters are generally a gimmick. I doubt this sort of thing is going to sway the people that prefer fighters on Live, but it is an entertaining way of trolling Megaman fans at least. I'm sure Ono was just fucking sick of hearing about it so he opted for Bad Box Art Megaman just to piss them off more.

[Ufgt]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

Please, for the love of god, do not buy this game. In fact, don't buy any more Capcom games, ever.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

Why? I want a good reason, not a butthurt Mega Man fanboy reason.

I'm not saying I'm getting it, either, as I've come to believe 2D fighters just aren't for me anymore. Too much left hand twitch I can't keep up with anymore and 3D fighters have less of that.

I am getting RE: Revelations, though.

Anywhy, if you can't find the humor in Bad Box Art Mega Man, that's pretty fucking sad.

[Ufgt]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

Oh, I am not butthurt about Megaman, I really don't care.

But Ono is dick and Capcom doesn't know how to design fighting games anymore. They used to be the best, but with SSFIVAE2012 and UMvC3, they've lost the touch. SFxT just further shows how out of touch they are with the genre. Everything about the design of this game screams troll, from Pandora Mode (terrible comback mechanic that's as ill concieved as Xfactor), Cross Assault mode (what is this, MUGEN?), Gems (ugggghhh... DLC games? Pre order gems?). I think the roster is pretty legit, but I think the game will just be complete ass from a mechanics POV.

Just for background, I play FGs competitively, so I have super high standards. This game will be fun for casuals though... ugh.

It just feels like... Capcom isn't even putting any thought into their recent crop of fighters. They buff and nerf the wrong characters, they can't admit when mistakes are made (Xfactor, CMON!), and they're unwilling to appeal to the competitive crowd. They also don't sponsor the biggest event for their FGs (EVO series), which is retards.

PS. I mad.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

Uh, arcades aren't around anymore, how do you expect fighting games to have an audience at all if they just stick to people that used to go to arcades? The old guard is starting to age out of the genre. Hell, I know I can't keep up anymore and its not like my reflexes are that bad for most games.

All the things you're griping about either turn the tide so casuals don't suffer a total blowout - though they will still likely lose to a practiced player - or shake up the genre. I don't really see King of Fighters or BlazBlue really shaking things up and that Persona 4 fighter screams non-fighter audience.

I've played a good deal of SSFIV, all it really ever was was a roster rebalance to stick it to people that exploited Sagat and otherwise made fights longer and more about footsies and jabs. FADCs were a bit too much of the core of the game, too. But the real problem is two of the new fighters were just two more fucking Shotos. Half the damn roster is Shoto now and they seem to keep making Ryu and other shotos god mode.

UMVC3's problem was shipping without the modes MVC3 had and they're still not out yet. A $40 re-release by March of this year with that content would have been acceptable, gameplay-wise it has a lot to like, moreso that SSFIV, but its just too damn twitchy for me.

I'll just stick to Soulcalibur and pray Virtua Fighter makes another comeback.

[Ufgt]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

Rebalancing a game is fine, but they don't know HOW to rebalance SFIV. Like I said, they buff and nerf in all the wrong places. And they most certainly didn't even try to rebalance UMvC3. I mean, level 4 Xfactor Wesker? Get that shit outta here. The game is so random. The majority of top players even accept that it's random, and the better player doesn't always win. In what world is that supposed to happen?

King of Fighters is the only true honest fighting game this generation. And that's all I play. Blaz... has some of the worst balance of all time as well. I haven't seen too much of CS Extend 2, but I'm sure it's going to be super imba as well. For sure CT was terrible (lol v-13), and CS had LOL Hakuman, and CS Extend had Makoto. Relius Clover looks to be on a whole other level of imba.

I'm pretty stoked for Soul Calibur V though. It looks good. And SUPER DUPER stoked for Persona 4. Of all the franchises I am sad I missed out on, it's probably VF. That shit is so complicated, and I don't have the time now to pick it up.

[Armando]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

Anywhy, if you can't find the humor in Bad Box Art Mega Man, that's pretty fucking sad.

Under any other circumstance, I'd find it hilarious. In the context of the past year...it's just pouring more salt on an open wound. Not to mention he's blatantly playing the role of company mascot as Pac Man's counterpart, but they played Pac Man straight.

[Icemage]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

@Ugft

Speaking as someone who's only marginally excited by fighting games, I think you're being a little too hyper-critical. Not every game needs to be tournament-worthy to be fun, and for that matter, not every roster has to be perfectly balanced to be tournament-worthy.

UMvC3 seems at least "more" balanced than MvC3 (fewer combo resets, and Dark Phoenix no longer completely warps the metagame). Even Wesker at Xfactor 4 isn't "that" dominant - no more so than Dark Phoenix is, at any rate.

BlazBlue isn't amazingly balanced (as you noted), but ASW has been good about un-breaking stuff in subsequent versions, and at least it's not 17 almost identical flavors of the same thing (see: MK9).

As for the hordes of casuals, you should be praising developers for finding a way to make money on these games so you at least get new versions to play with. So what if half the roster is garbage? Just don't use them, and let the casuals who DO enjoy using them play how they like.


Icemage

[Armando]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

As for the hordes of casuals, you should be praising developers for finding a way to make money on these games so you at least get new versions to play with. So what if half the roster is garbage? Just don't use them, and let the casuals who DO enjoy using them play how they like.

I can respect any decision to make any game more approachable to beginners players, but lately it seems devs want to simply protect newbies' egos at the cost of game balance. That's how I feel about Brawl, MvC3's X-Factor, and Pokemon Black/White's VS mode (which reveal both player's parties to each other.) It's a lose/lose situation, and it can't be fixed. Any game where a veteran can't whoop a newbie isn't worth playing. You can at best lower the learning curve so newbies can become competent in a reasonable amount of time.

[Icemage]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

SSB Brawl is a legitimate complaint, since many of the high-level techniques are now just... gone. That and Metaknight. But I would first question whether SSB Melee was all that tournament-worthy to begin with (and it's not exactly a well-balanced game either). Neither SSBB nor SSBM were set out to be deliberately tournament-worthy games at the design level; that they even approach it at all is more lucky happenstance than intentional.

I see a lot of complaining about MvC3 X-Factor, but seriously it's not "THAT" much of an equalizer. A newbie isn't going to take down your entire team unless you just don't know how to block and/or play keep-away, and you always have your own X-Factor that you can use. Sure, if your entire setup depends on having your starting character supported by assists who aren't that great on their own... yeah, that's a problem, but that's the way it goes in a 3v3 team game, and if you foresee that being a problem, you can always choose a team member that holds their own a little better in the final slot (i.e. Wesker, Spencer, etc.).

Really the one game that has been infected a bit too much by being a bit too approachable is MK9. Hit detection in that game is a bit flaky, and the controls are waaaaay simplified, to the point where pretty much every character is approachable... but almost all of the characters have lost some of their uniqueness in the process.


Icemage

[Armando]

Re: Street Fighter X Tekken

Neither SSBB nor SSBM were set out to be deliberately tournament-worthy games at the design level; that they even approach it at all is more lucky happenstance than intentional.

Making it so beginners could play with experts on an even playing field was explicitly part of Brawl's design. Melee, I wouldn't be so sure.

Looking back, nearly a decade on, Sakurai seems proud of Melee overall. "Melee is the sharpest game in the series," he wrote. "It's pretty speedy all around and asks a lot of your coordination skills. Fans of the first Smash Bros. got into it quickly, and it just felt really good to play."

However, he has one particularly deep regret: the game's accessibility level. "I had created Smash Bros. to be my response to how hardcore-exclusive the fighting game genre had become over the years," Sakurai said. "But why did I target it so squarely toward people well-versed in videogames, then? That's why I tried to aim for more of a happy medium with Brawl's play balance. There are three Smash Bros. games out now, but even if I ever had a chance at another one, I doubt we'll ever see one that's as geared toward hardcore gamers as Melee was. Melee fans who played deep into the game without any problems might have trouble understanding this, but Melee was just too difficult."

Source: Masahiro Sakurai Reflects on Super Smash Bros. Melee
I would argue that any game that you can get better at and that lets you compete on an even playing field is worthy of tournament play, no matter the content.

I see a lot of complaining about MvC3 X-Factor, but seriously it's not "THAT" much of an equalizer.

I know it won't tilt the scales so far as to allow a beginner to beat an expert, but the intention is there - the side that's losing gets to shorten the gap, so he won't lose by such a wide margin. The problem isn't what decisions like those do to newbie vs expert match-ups, because those are lost causes anyways. The problem is that X-Factor is so powerful that the outcome of expert vs expert matches hinges on who gets their X-Factored combo/super in. Or at least, that's how it was for MvC3, don't know about UMvC3.

Tipping the scales in the losing side's favor is rarely a good idea when done in anything but small quantities, but giving the losing side a massive offensive edge is especially anti-competitive. Games like Guilty Gear had a much better approach - give the character a defense boost as it gets critically close to dying. I dislike SFIV's addition of Ultras for the same reason, it's bad enough that it works off of a second gauge, but it's terrible that Ultras fill up by taking damage. You're practically guaranteed an Ultra for free before the match is over.

Ideally a game wouldn't play any different when you're winning or losing. Devs shouldn't reward one side for losing any more than they should give the side that's winning an extra advantage.