DIABLO III - J9's thread of infernal enthusiasm!

[Taskmage]

Re: DIABLO III - J9's thread of infernal enthusiasm!

Is this just bullshit you convince yourself of or do you actually say these things to people in real life where they can laugh in your face after they've paid $50 for a full tank of gas? Cast wild aspersions if you want to, but all we have to do is dial it back seven or eight years and we were getting games that were more content complete at $40 or $50 than we do now at $60

Hell, I can get more content complete games for $30 right now brand new.

You realize you just basically undermined your argument right there in the first line, right? Staple goods like gasoline now cost double or more what they did ten years ago, ergo the value of the dollar has halved, yet video game price tags have remained fairly steady over that period. It takes the same number today's half-power dollars to buy games, therefore the marginal cost of buying them has been cut in half. Put another way, ten years ago $60 could have bought you three tanks of gas or one video game; now it could buy you one tank of gas or a video game. The marginal cost of the game (the next best thing you could buy with the money) is now a fraction of what it was before. Economics.

I do remember paying $60 for Mario 3 and $80 for ChronoTrigger, btw. These days I can buy a product for the same price that takes orders of magnitude more man-hours to produce, but I'm getting ripped off because they're not as "complete." Go figure.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: DIABLO III - J9's thread of infernal enthusiasm!

Again, just announcing expansions or DLC before your game hits retail throws everything into question. Capcom annouces DLC costumes for SFXT months ahead of release and now there's 12 locked characters found on-disc. Starcraft 2 starts out with every race having their own campaign in one retail release, but then changes to on focusing on Terrans and we'll get to those other two in expansions.

From a multi-player standpoitn I'm sure what's there is more than enough for now, but for single-player its questionable.

That shit just makes me throw my hands in the air and say "I'll wait for the 'final' version/Battlechest/GotY Edition." This is eventually going to backfire on developers because they're creating an environment where gamers will expect that.

You realize you just basically undermined your argument right there in the first line, right? Staple goods like gasoline now cost double or more what they did ten years ago, ergo the value of the dollar has halved, yet video game price tags have remained fairly steady over that period. It takes the same number today's half-power dollars to buy games, therefore the marginal cost of buying them has been cut in half. Put another way, ten years ago $60 could have bought you three tanks of gas or one video game; now it could buy you one tank of gas or a video game. The marginal cost of the game (the next best thing you could buy with the money) is now a fraction of what it was before. Economics.

I do remember paying $60 for Mario 3 and $80 for ChronoTrigger, btw. These days I can buy a product for the same price that takes orders of magnitude more man-hours to produce, but I'm getting ripped off because they're not as "complete." Go figure.

And you completely ignore last generation by focusing on a time when games were made for children. PSX to PS2 they were not. The value was better last generation, but hey, dance around that one all you want. Also dance around the fact that there are games released from $10-$15 digitally that bring more value than some $60 releases.

Also. we all know gas prices have less to do with the value of the dollar and more to do with inept energy policy and exploitation of that inept energy policy. If it was just the dollar, it wouldn't be this bad.

[Taskmage]

Re: DIABLO III - J9's thread of infernal enthusiasm!

Let's say it was back in the 90s when Blizzard didn't have this big war chest from WoW to work with. They would have produced WoL, probably exactly as is, with plenty of loose plot lines to lead into a sequel, because we all know regardless of the era, follow-up products are something they'd like to do. They would have released it, waited to see sales numbers, and when WoL turned enough profit, then they would announce the WotS expansion and begin development, capitalizing on the established engine and assets the same way they are now. How would that be more honorable than what they're doing now? The only difference I see is that now they have enough assets and predictable enough sales numbers that they can plan ahead for the development of those future products instead of waiting to see like in the old days.

I mean if they were literally breaking off pieces of the game and selling them seperately, I could see your issue, and you could probably make a much better case against certain other developers/publishers, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree by accusing Blizzard of this particular sin.

---------- Post added at 06:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------

I bought far fewer games in the PSX era than I shared, borrowed, or pirated, so I can't provide a price-value reference there. College days.

The value of the dollar is determined by what it can buy. The price of gas has its own set of influencing factors, but it does still play into the value of currency. This is not a subject I particularly care to discuss in depth, though, and I doubt you do either.

---------- Post added at 06:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:00 PM ----------

Also dance around the fact that there are games released from $10-$15 digitally that bring more value than some $60 releases.

That's entirely true, imo, but I don't consider it to be relevant to the subject of "completeness." Stuff was left out of Bastion and then patched in later, but the fact that it was "incomplete" at launch compared to its current state did nothing to detract from the amazingness of the experience or the ultimate value of the product.

[Malacite]

Re: DIABLO III - J9's thread of infernal enthusiasm!

I honestly think he's just butthurt.

[cidbahamut]

Re: DIABLO III - J9's thread of infernal enthusiasm!

because we all know regardless of the era, follow-up products are something they'd like to do.

I don't really agree with this. I think over the years there has been a change in the fundamental approach to game design. When the industry was younger you were expected to release a full product, with the only hope of making additions to it coming in the form of an expansion pack if it did really well, and sequels were generally only happening if the game did phenomenally well. You didn't build the game from the ground up under the assumption that you'd be adding more to it down the road. You had to make a product that would stand on its own. With the advent of digital distribution and its ever increasing popularity coupled with the growing production costs and everything being calculated in terms of risk, we now have an industry that more or less thrives on the notion that whatever game you produce, there's going to be more of it later. You get entire game story arcs that hinge on there being a sequel, or at the very least DLC.

While BBQ is as always full of shit, I think I understand what he's getting at. There's been a very subtle but profound shift in the way developers go about designing their games now, and for folks like me who subscribe to some vague touchy-feely bullshit notion of "it's complete because I said so and it's all in one package", this shift is deeply troubling. I think it's the invasion of a perpetual development cycle into a section of gaming where before it was always a finite development cycle and additions to that cycle were the exception rather than the rule.

[jenova_9]

Re: DIABLO III - J9's thread of infernal enthusiasm!

oh mew! let's just craft a peace treaty and have humble thoughts of each other, mew!

[cidbahamut]

Re: DIABLO III - J9's thread of infernal enthusiasm!

Shut the fuck up J9.

Seriously.

[Etra]

Re: DIABLO III - J9's thread of infernal enthusiasm!

You all some feisty bitches.

[jenova_9]

Re: DIABLO III - J9's thread of infernal enthusiasm!

Shut the fuck up J9.

Seriously.

well at least that is a kind of humble sincerity, mew.

[Raydeus]

Re: DIABLO III - J9's thread of infernal enthusiasm!

*hugs J9*

[Armando]

Re: DIABLO III - J9's thread of infernal enthusiasm!

I don't really agree with this. I think over the years there has been a change in the fundamental approach to game design. When the industry was younger you were expected to release a full product, with the only hope of making additions to it coming in the form of an expansion pack if it did really well, and sequels were generally only happening if the game did phenomenally well.

I don't think that's true at all. Even if a game did't do all that great, a sequel still presents an opportunity to make money with much lower investment. The hard part - the engine - is already done, so you just have to add a couple of new features and new art assets. If you manage to correct whatever it was that didn't make your game a success the first time around, you can get a success the second time for a fraction of the original cost. I'd say the number of old games with sequels far outnumbers the phenomenal games.

You didn't build the game from the ground up under the assumption that you'd be adding more to it down the road. You had to make a product that would stand on its own. With the advent of digital distribution and its ever increasing popularity coupled with the growing production costs and everything being calculated in terms of risk, we now have an industry that more or less thrives on the notion that whatever game you produce, there's going to be more of it later. You get entire game story arcs that hinge on there being a sequel, or at the very least DLC.

The mindset isn't going to change as long as every game is expected to live up to the 360 and PS3's graphics. Mainstream games are too expensive to make any other way now.

[jenova_9]

Re: DIABLO III - J9's thread of infernal enthusiasm!

new video, mew!

Ninjaish! Well maybe like a RNG/NIN?

[jenova_9]

Re: DIABLO III - J9's thread of infernal enthusiasm!

update, mew!

http://darkd3.com/

and more!

Diablo III

Diablo III

[jenova_9]

Re: DIABLO III - J9's thread of infernal enthusiasm!

They are starting to reveal more information!

Darkness Falls, Heroes Rise: 10% Unlock Revealed - Diablo III

I guess it's like a countdown, mew.

[jenova_9]

Re: DIABLO III - J9's thread of infernal enthusiasm!

new videos, mew!

Diablo III: Barbarian Spotlight Video - Diablo 3 Video - PC - IGN

Diablo III Monk Spotlight Video - Diablo 3 Video - PC - IGN