PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

[Icemage]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

You do realise the following right?

1) Images still load when spoiler tagged. A huge stack of images hidden with spoiler tags will eat up a chunk of bandwidth as those images are being loaded without you knowing.

2) There are people with larger avatars and signature images in terms of file size than that image. To note a single case of someone posting a reaction macro in a thread is silly when there's larger images and gifs in people's avatars and sigs.

3) If you're that bothered about seeing images on your smartphone then you can simply block them to save 3G bandwidth. Also going to refer you back to points 1 and 2.

4) I'm more than willing to put money on the fact that you wouldn't have freaked out if it was a regular reaction image, rather than a pony one. I posted a pony one for the simple reason that it was one of the least offensive ones I could find on a google image search.

5) It would have been easier and far more civil to simply PM me and ask to wrap it in spoiler tags (however I do refer you to pints 1, 2 and 3), rather than editing a post that does nothing to break the forum ToS while also further derailing the thread.

I'm not going to take this one to PMs because it looks like it needs to be hashed out in public.

(1) Yes, images still load, but under a spoiler tag they don't resize the frames until you click them. Hence keeping things reasonable and readable.

(2) There are NO avatars or signatures on this forum that are in the same visible size range as what I dropped into spoiler tags. We issue the occasional warning to users who neglect to stay under the stated limits.

(3) So instead someone who has everything blocked has no idea what you posted, because that's obviously so much better.

(4) You would lose that bet. Do not start some sort of persecution complex discussion. I've said absolutely nothing against most of the image posts made, I don't care at all about the various signatures and avatars that people have, and I've lifted not one finger against any of the posts in the Off Topic forum. I will say this, however. Attitudes like "Woe is me, I'm being persecuted because I'm a brony" do nothing but perpetuate the antipathy.

(5) See reason 4. Seriously? "Boohoo, my image is now in a spoiler tag, how evil! No one can see my image now!". Oh wait.

I am not here to say you can not post images. I'm not here to say you can't have fun. I'm simply drawing a line in the sand where posts that do not contribute to a discussion outside of the OT forum should have a reasonable expectation of not breaking the usability of the forum without extraordinary measures.


Icemage
FFXIOnline.com Forum Super Moderator

[Icemage]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

Double posting, but now that most of my Thanksgiving planning is done and I've had a chance to be running on something more than 3 hours of sleep a day, it seems I'm overreacting, and for that I'm sorry to Firewind. I've been running myself a bit ragged between taking a trip out of town and getting caught up with real life work obligations before said trip, but I still should have gut-checked my reaction better.

That said, the linked image size thing IS an ongoing issue and we're hashing out some sort of compromise behind the scenes. There apparently used to be some sort of auto-resize function on this forum which kept oversized images in check and it seems to have gotten zapped by an update at some point in time. Not sure if we can get something along those lines back, but it'd be nice.


Icemage

[Raydeus]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

I remember that. It was a good feature indeed.

I don't know much about forum clients, but the image resizing features used in the newer Nexus sites are pretty cool if you happen to visit those.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

I remember that. It was a good feature indeed.

It really only had one problem, in that it made Lmnop's avatar indiscernible for the past forever.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

Not sure how to gauge Black Friday yet, as I'm still recovering and today things were more tame than last year because more stores anted up for midnight sales and Cyber Monday deals are a bit more aggressive. I'd say the PS3 bundle with Rachet and Clank/LBP2 was the most demanded item at $200, but the second the $200 PS2 became the Harry Potter bundle no one wanted it.

It was treated like leftovers. We couldn't move them.Totally weird, Thought a $200 PS3 would be enough by itself.

Still, no one asked for Move controllers, which is odd since the R&C game requires them. I think Sony missed an opportunity to make some good offers with Move, because it and Kinect are proving the be a half-hearted answer to Wiimotes and most of the good exclusive still land with Kinect more often.

So this whole idea that Sony and MS don't need to pay attention to what Nintendo does because they can't just "patch it later" is a bit rubbish to me. They've not really risen above the sort of shovelware Wii usually ended up with.

Does it sell? Well, it clearly does on Kinect. But if NIntendo's tablet-like controller pans out, Sony and MS likely wouldn't strive to rise above the bare minimum effort.

Sorcery looks to be the only Move game that proves that tech was worth anything. Kinect has the Dance Central games, Gunstringer and Once Upon a Monster along with Kinectimals. Not much, but at least I can count those as actual games.

Still, I can count more Wii games that are more worthwhile. Probably because it was conceptualized to use motion controllers and have Classic Controller as an option for certain games early on. I'd argue, however that Twilight Princess wasn't the demonstration the Wii needed, particularly compared to the Mario games, Metroid Prime 3 and the recent Skyward Sword. Had something like Skyward Sword or Wii Sports Resorts been the launch games, I think developers would have had better ideas to go on.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - you can't change things mid-generation and expect developers to go along with it.

Every Nintendo peripheral since the Power Glove has essentially proven this. If you have something new you want to bring to the table, it has to be there at launch with the new hardware of developers don't use it. Doesn't matter if its Wii Motion Plus, Move or Kinect. Hell, the PS2 HDD, too. It was only good for FFXI, two RE online games and some 2k games.

If this tablet controller proves to be a winner for Nintendo, I wouldn't expect it to translate to success with PS3 and the next Xbox to just assimilate it mid-generation.

[Cheezeman3000]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

Had something like Skyward Sword or Wii Sports Resorts been the launch games, I think developers would have had better ideas to go on.

Which, as we know, was not possible at that time due to no WiiMotion+, so I'm hoping that with the Wii U supporting the Wii remotes we'll start to see some really good implementation of the tech. Unless developers just go the lazy route and go back to traditional controls with the tablet thing. That's probably more likely.

[Icemage]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

Which, as we know, was not possible at that time due to no WiiMotion+, so I'm hoping that with the Wii U supporting the Wii remotes we'll start to see some really good implementation of the tech. Unless developers just go the lazy route and go back to traditional controls with the tablet thing. That's probably more likely.

The rub there is that not everyone who bought WiiMotes has WM+ for them (and even of those that do own WM+, they don't always have them for all their Wiimotes), which forces developers to make a choice between: (a) not supporting Wiimotes at all, (b) supporting only standard Wiimotes without Wii Motion+, (c) supporting Wii Motion+, but not standard Wiimotes, or (d) supporting WiiMotes and also WM+. That's a lot of extra control schemes to design around and test, and I'm not sure 3rd party publishers will put forth any effort into doing that.

Sony and Microsoft will have the same problem with Kinect and PS Move to some extent. Using existing Kinect hardware on their next generation will limit it to the same applications it has now, because of resolution and framerate limitations, and then what do they say to all the people who own first generation Kinect hardware? Sony could theoretically get away with just a revision on the PlayStation 3 Eye to upgrade its capabilities, since Move tech isn't specifically limited by the wand itself, but they still have the problem of "what about all those people that own older PS Eye hardware and won't know any better"? And the 3rd party publishers will by and large still not put forth any effort into it because there just isn't enough addressable market.

This is really the first time we've had a plausible reason for older peripherals to work on newer hardware, so it's something of an interesting case study to see what the developers do and how consumers will react. My personal guess is that Microsoft will not make Kinect v1 compatible with their next box, and Sony will not make the PS3 Eye compatible with PS4, just to ensure they don't get this "I've got the right hardware, why doesn't this game work right" sort of question. Nintendo's already on record saying the older peripherals will be supported in some fashion, but do we really expect anyone outside of Nintendo to even bother?


Icemage

[Kailea]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

I honestly hope that only the motion + controllers are supported by the Wii:U

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

This is really the first time we've had a plausible reason for older peripherals to work on newer hardware, so it's something of an interesting case study to see what the developers do and how consumers will react. My personal guess is that Microsoft will not make Kinect v1 compatible with their next box, and Sony will not make the PS3 Eye compatible with PS4, just to ensure they don't get this "I've got the right hardware, why doesn't this game work right" sort of question. Nintendo's already on record saying the older peripherals will be supported in some fashion, but do we really expect anyone outside of Nintendo to even bother?

How many games really made use of analog buttons on the PS2 to make DS2 worthwhile over DS1

Answer: Not many.

How many PS3 games actually use SIXAXIS controls for anything.

Again, not many.

Is there really anything to justify a fourth iteration of the Dual Shock. If they revert to DS2's L2 and R2 because the DS3's trip more unintended actions than I can care to count, but barring that, not really.

With Sony and MS releasing peripherals out so late in the game, its a huge risk to drop support for them into the next Xbox or the PS4, but MS seems to be willing to take that risk as rumors of a Kinect 2 have already begun.

Sony, even with Move being a complete failure - and it is a complete failure based on units shipped vs. units sold, which is why Sony only ever talks about units shipped - I wouldn't put it past them to make another iteration when they don't really have to.

Because they're Sony and making people buy shit all over again is all they ever really do these days. Pro Duo? Pro Duo micro? Old hat, my friends, we need a new, totally pointless flash memory format to make up the losses were going to take on Vita - Go ahead and make memory card saves mandatory even though physical games are sold on flash cards. It doesn't make sense but we have enough idiots to defend it.

I have a hard time believing that nobody had a Motion + controller that has bought a Wii in the last four years or so. The games that have required it have often provided a package with the game that requires it. I get plenty of people looking for a copy of Wii Sports Resort and I don't think they'd come looking for that if they didn't have the controller.

What Sony and MS really need to be concerning themselves with right now as they work on these systems is actually having games for the PS3 and 360 these next couple of years. No one should want to be in the position Nintendo of America left Wii in.

Since the next few months are dry for pretty much everything for me, I may look to importing the games NOA has neglected for the Wii. After Elder Scrolls V, I'm going to want a few more large RPGs and it seems Xenoblade fits the bill. Jury's still out on FFXIII-2, dunno how long that one would last me.

All that said, I really hate how insatiable developers are for hardware power. Even with the great games we have now, the RPG genre has been pretty dismal this console generation because of HD and here we go again with 3DS and Vita seeming to get a lot of the love there. Sometimes advancing hardware and graphics are more of a detriment than an asset.

That said, I'm glad Bethesda didn't hold out for next gen on Skyrim.

[Armando]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

How many games really made use of analog buttons on the PS2 to make DS2 worthwhile over DS1

When I first heard the PS2 controllers had analog buttons a year or two back I flipped the fuck out. It's a real shame the idea didn't take off, because analog buttons could make a couple of games better. Distinguishing between normal attacks and smash attacks, and full jumps vs short hops in Super Smash Bros would be a lot more newbie friendly and intuitive if it were based on button pressure and not on making sure you release the button within 4 frames.

...and here we go again with 3DS and Vita seeming to get a lot of the love there. Sometimes advancing hardware and graphics are more of a detriment than an asset.

Can't speak for the Vita but I don't see this as a concern with the 3DS. Its lower-than-480p resolution limits it to sub-Gamecube graphics. The DS was really limited in what it could do in 3D so I welcome the step up in graphics. It's the next generation of handhelds that worries me.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

My only concern for 3DS RPGs is that by continuing the silly arms race with consoles that developers insist on, they're forcing other developers to play it safe and affordable, which is most likely 3DS and iOS right now.

Costs for HD might be coming down to earth now, but the economy is still total shit. There are plenty of developers that would love to make console RPGs but just can't.

Also, Vita having at least a few RPGs in development as well is telling about where things are still going. The problem for Vita, however, may end up being the problem PSP had - a ton of RPG remakes and not much else new for RPGs. Not that I mind remakes but DS had more interesting originals than PSP did because DS created the environment to encourage them. Even the biggest-selling PSP game was recycled assets from PS2 games.

3DS has a more financially friendly environment this time, but that's about it. They don't really have any game-changing innovations with 3DS, though the graphical boost and 3D is nice.

As for the resolution, it might be on the low side, but it doesn't stop Mario 3D LAnd from looking pretty close to par with the Galaxy games visually.