PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

[Raydeus]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

A retail disk with full installation (+online activation) would probably be best for those cases.

But digital distribution needs to be an option regardless.

[Malacite]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

Not only that, but in Canada we get fucked over badly on ISPs. If I had to download every game I buy, my internet bills would be obscene (hell they already are, fuck you up the ass CRTC)

[Cheezeman3000]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

God I hope we don't get an all-download machine any time soon. With over 100 discs for my PS3, I'd be looking at probably 2TB if it were all stored on the hard drive instead of on optical media.

As it is, I'm using around 250GB out of my 320GB drive on my PS3 between DLC, game downloads, and a handful of game installs.


Icemage

I'm with you. I think physical discs are here to stay for the time being, so no worries, but Sony is definitely pushing for everything being digitized as well, so we'll see how long it takes before discs go bye-bye...

[Icemage]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

God I hope we don't get an all-download machine any time soon. With over 100 discs for my PS3, I'd be looking at probably 2TB if it were all stored on the hard drive instead of on optical media.

As it is, I'm using around 250GB out of my 320GB drive on my PS3 between DLC, game downloads, and a handful of game installs.


Icemage

[Raydeus]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

Because of all of the games going digital download. As it is now, if I had my entire PS3 library in digital form, it would definitely not fit on anything less than, say, a 500GB HDD. And now with Sony's huge push on digital media, I think a minimum of 1TB will be expected in next-gen systems. Or at least the ability, as Nintendo is supposedly granting with the WiiU, to attach any external drive you want. I'd be more down with that option if it lowers the cost AND if they allow USB3.0 so that the system can read directly from the external drive without hiccups. I know Nintendo will just stick to 2.0, but I could see Sony doing 3.0.

^ What he said.

---------- Post added at 02:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:32 PM ----------

PS > Also, pr0n.

[Cheezeman3000]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

Whatever reason on Earth would you have to need TBs of storage space on a console?

Because of all of the games going digital download. As it is now, if I had my entire PS3 library in digital form, it would definitely not fit on anything less than, say, a 500GB HDD. And now with Sony's huge push on digital media, I think a minimum of 1TB will be expected in next-gen systems. Or at least the ability, as Nintendo is supposedly granting with the WiiU, to attach any external drive you want. I'd be more down with that option if it lowers the cost AND if they allow USB3.0 so that the system can read directly from the external drive without hiccups. I know Nintendo will just stick to 2.0, but I could see Sony doing 3.0.

[Takelli]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

Whatever reason on Earth would you have to need TBs of storage space on a console?

To store all of his porn on that he will surely download, Duh.

[DakAttack]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

Whatever reason on Earth would you have to need TBs of storage space on a console?

[Raydeus]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

I don't know, I'm still having trouble seeing Sony including SSDs as a feature rather than a supported option.

And SSDs do help the PS3 for obvious reasons, but it's just not as noticeable as most people would expect on anything that involves BD reads. Which is why I'd much rather see them going with a globalized digital distribution model (lulz console Steam) and/or a disk solution with full install from the disk and online activation (and code sales.)

Which is also why I'd rather see the PS4 including 1-2TB 7200RPM disks than a 256GB SSD.

[Icemage]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

The only way SSDs will improve performance is if they get rid of disk requirements to play the software.

Not explicitly true. A small (~4GB or so) SSD which is used exclusively for caching game data and maybe starting the console firmware could provide a significant boost to performance if it's provided as a standard feature (so that developers can be sure it's there and make use of it).

The reason SSDs don't help PS3 games much is because developers can only reasonably expect there to be a 5600 RPM hard drive available, and so a lot of processes are developed with that in mind. It's not (usually) because of the Blu-ray drive, per se.

Assuming that the next gen PS and Xbox don't come around for another two years or so, I suspect one or both will feature something like this. By that time, the smallest SSDs should become "commercially viable" to include in other devices. It absolves the need for a full-blown SSD for general storage - and the associated gigantic costs - while still offering high performance for developers who need to cache game data for streaming purposes.

It's also worth noting that the PS3's Blu-ray drive is 2x, and we now have 12x Blu-ray drives in the wild, so even that bottleneck will be less of an issue. My guess is that the PS4 will probably ship with an 8x BDXL drive. Maybe the next Xbox as well. As for the Wii U, the only thing Nintendo's said is that it will be a 25GB optical disc. If I were forced at gunpoint to guess, I'd guess it is a variation on single-layer Blu-ray, with maybe a 4x equivalent drive.



---------- Post added at 07:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 AM ----------

oh yeah I agree as well.... I am getting the WII: U when it comes out, as I do every Nintendo system....but I swear if it's online is not on par with PS3/360..... well *sigh* I dont know anymore -.-

...as for this, I'll go ahead and predict it now: Nintendo's online service will never be the equal of either Xbox Live or PlayStation Network. They are way too attached to their squeaky-clean "fun for everyone" image to let go of the reins on things like voice chat. The chaos which is Xbox Live's banning system is simply anathema to everything Nintendo represents as a company. They don't want users bickering, or calling each other names in games, or disputing bans, or even to have to police their users - they'd prefer to simply engineer their services so that such things aren't necessary. Unless this philosophy changes, there is no way - ever - that Nintendo can put together a functional online community. If you're expecting the Wii U to have equal functionality to Xbox Live, I guarantee you will be sadly disappointed, and you can take that prediction to the bank.


Icemage

[Raydeus]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

The only way SSDs will improve performance is if they get rid of disk requirements to play the software.

If you see the PS3 (I don't know about the Xbox) it isn't even taking advantage of the regular HDD transfer rates to begin with because the system still needs to read from the disk for most games.

So, the only way to improve loading speeds is getting rid of the disks altogether. This will require full installation PC style instead of a limited one like it's currently used. So hopefully digital distribution will take over for the next generation and instead of SSDs they will include 2TB disk for installation data.

With SSD (TRIM, etc.) support for people wanting to upgrade, of course.

[Malacite]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

Well, one thing they can do is make the next gen consoles have freaking SSDs.

Yes, I'm aware that this will likely drive up the price but when you consider how much more efficient SSD is over HDD, it's totally worth it IMO. Who really needs the massive hard drives they're coming out with now anyway for gaming consoles? That's what a PC or external HDD is for (movies/music).

I just want enough space on my SSD to install the games and greatly reduce read & write times. Unless I'm mistaken, this should drastically improve online performance as well in terms of perceived lag.

Which brings me to my 2nd sticking point - As IM pointed out, graphics will keep getting better, but not at an OMGWTFBBQ level like the jump from last generation was. If they can get anywhere near equal to what PC's can do with SLI/Crossfire with high end cards, that's more than enough. Rather I'd like to see a more serious focus on improving the online aspects.

This means getting rid of, or making better attempts to minimize host lag. Seriously, I'm beyond sick of this shit. SONY needs to step up their interface as well to at least match that of XBL. We still don't have cross-game chat, can't really export our profiles via a memory card, and the XMB is still a bit intrusive/slow.

[Raydeus]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

I think in a way graphics technology won't only grow vertically but also horizontally. If you see current systems they have almost gotten to the "cap" on VFX and resolution*, so I think it is the amount of detail and models in a single scene what will increase in the following generations instead.

Take a look at Tessallation. Right now, it's pretty pointless... because they are only using it to make better looking walls and slightly more detailed soft shadows and models. But, if you combine that technology with better engines and fully tessallated characters and environments on screen you have to potential of having full detail everywhere.

Visual effects wont really change much as things like occlusion and depth of field are gimmicky at best right now, but if you combine them with tessallation and way more characters and objects on screen (all generated procedurally and affected by physics) you get scenes that could make current console games look like Echochrome.

And just like Icemage I'm expecting the most noticeable improvements to be on framerates, V-sync and amount of memory for the most part in the short term.


*Current 1080p resolution that is, don't forget super HD displays like the one I posted about some time ago and the horse power that will be required to run games at that resolution.

[Icemage]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

I honestly want to see what the next gen from Sony and MS hold, because the graphic power now is.... well excellent ;p

As far as resolution goes, I agree with you - console games can't really get "that" much prettier in terms of image quality. Sure, we might get better polygon counts, better shader effects and more common implementation of 1080p, etc, but the best looking games (Gears 3, Uncharted 3, Battlefield 3, Gran Turismo 5, Forza 4, MLB The Show, and a handful of others) are so close to photorealistic that you'd only get a modest incremental increase in visual appeal.

Where I think there's still a lot of room for improvement is frame rate (a lot of games struggle to maintain 30 frames per second, let alone do a solid 60 fps), screen tearing (the devil!!!) and environmental physics (someone please for the love of god make something standard that is better than ragdoll physics). If there is a staggering difference in processing power between consoles in the next generation - something that is likely with Xbox 720 / PS4 vs. Wii U - it's likely we will see the difference not so much in graphic resolution, but in frame rate.

Even so, it's not going to be quite as lopsided and obvious as it is right now with Wii vs. PS360. When the best looking Wii games (from a tech standpoint) like The Conduit 2 can't even hold their own graphically with even mid-tier PS360 games, you know the hardware is woefully underpowered compared to its competition. I doubt we'll see that sort of disparity with the Wii U no matter how powerful the next consoles are from Microsoft or Sony.

its going to get to the point where it wont even matter anymore, all the systems will run/look the same

In one sense, Nintendo benefits from the fact that Sony and Microsoft don't really have a lot of room to improve in terms of image quality. But I get the feeling that they're still going to get steamrolled in a couple of years once Microsoft and Sony introduce new hardware, because the games are just going to run just that tiny bit better and smoother, and will have better online connectivity features. Unless they have a VAST install base advantage, multi-console owners will pretty much always pick the version that runs best - unless all their friends are playing the game on a specific platform. I have this impression that Nintendo's management thinks that simply making a box that "can" output 1080p is all they need to keep up, and if so, they're wrong, because they're going to lose the "runs best" comparison, and they're definitely going to lose the "all the friends are playing" comparison because of their terrible online service.


Icemage

[Kailea]

Re: PS4 to Launch in 2013, Xbox 720 to launch in 2014

I honestly want to see what the next gen from Sony and MS hold, because the graphic power now is.... well excellent ;p

its going to get to the point where it wont even matter anymore, all the systems will run/look the same