Another strike for Blizzard, DiabloIII!

[Raydeus]

Re: Another strike for Blizzard, DiabloIII!

VIII still pwns all RPGs to date, though.


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...what? <_<;

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Another strike for Blizzard, DiabloIII!

Games haven't gotten worse or changed. It's because you're getting older.

If you seriously think the last good games to come out were Deus Ex 1 and Planescape: Torment, you are dead inside and have completely lost touch with your inner child.

I'm 37 years old, so I'm old enough to remember pretty much all the way back to the beginning of the video game era, and games aren't any less innovative today than they were three decades ago. The only thing that has changed is my perception of them, my reflexes, and the amount of time I can spend with them.

Every year we see a bunch of really amazing games, and if you can't see that stuff like Rock Band, Super Mario Galaxy, The World Ends With You, Shadow of the Colossus, Batman: Arkham Asylum, and Bioshock aren't just as cool and innovative as any game "back in the day", then we can't really have much of a conversation because you've completely replaced "fun" with "nostalgia" and think you have to have the latter to have the former.


Icemage

There are indeed plenty of modern classics that make it through unscated.

This year I would consider Portal 2, Catherine, Radiant Historia, Monster Tale and Deus Ex Human Revolution to be such games. These are all games I could set beside any of the best from the SNES, PS2 and DS eras, which we could consider our "golden eras" of gaming.

However, there are also games that could exist on that level if only they didn't let he boardroom dictate content. I wish I could put games like Mass Effect 2 or LA Noire up there, but the DLC was just handled too poorly a whole and much of it didn't justify itself as a separate purchase, but rather, something that could have been much, much better had it been given the proper time and included in the main game.

And then there's those Game of the Year Electric Boogaloo rollups that essentially confirm what was feared about such games all along. Even as good as Lair of the Shadow Broker is, it should have been part of the game in the first place.

For the PS3 version, it is, but for the 360 version its sort of a burn how they handled it.

[Icemage]

Re: Another strike for Blizzard, DiabloIII!

Even as good as Lair of the Shadow Broker is, it should have been part of the game in the first place.

For the PS3 version, it is, but for the 360 version its sort of a burn how they handled it.

Lair of the Shadow Broker wasn't even started in development when ME2 shipped for Xbox 360/PC. I think I can give it a pass on those grounds. The rest of the ME2 DLC (aside from Arrival) sucks donkey doodle and has no such excuse however.

For that matter, the major malfunction of ME2 on Xbox 360 isn't the lack of included DLC, but the fact that the limitations of DVD storage warped the design of the game itself (ever wonder why you only get one set of dossiers right away? That's why.).


Icemage

[cidbahamut]

Re: Another strike for Blizzard, DiabloIII!

Wouldn't that actually strengthen the argument? You were jaded with contemporary games, then discovered two old classics that felt significantly different partially due to their age and nostalgia for their era?

If we're going to use this line of reasoning then there's no way I can win.

If I play them well after relaase I only love them because they're ye olde games. If I played them at release and love them now it's "oh you're blinded by nostalgia".

So sure, if we're going to set one of the base rules for evaluation to be "old games can't be better than new games", then yeah, I'm gonna lose the argument every fucking time no matter what.

So hey, I heard Shakespeare was a happening dude, but man everyone's just got nostalgia goggles for him.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Another strike for Blizzard, DiabloIII!

Lair of the Shadow Broker wasn't even started in development when ME2 shipped for Xbox 360/PC. I think I can give it a pass on those grounds.

Coming from the same people that said they pulled content as an "to speed up the approval process" and said n DA2 "lowering the barrier of entry" for those unfamiliar with RPGs, I trust Bioware's reasons about as far as I can throw them.

They pulled content to make a fast buck and rush their games to retail.
They didn't just lower the barrier of entry for DA2, they made their very own DX2: Invisible War.

For that matter, the major malfunction of ME2 on Xbox 360 isn't the lack of included DLC, but the fact that the limitations of DVD storage warped the design of the game itself (ever wonder why you only get one set of dossiers right away? That's why.).

Right, because they couldn't bring themselves to use another disc if they had to.

It was nickel-and-diming, nothing more.

[Taskmage]

Re: Another strike for Blizzard, DiabloIII!

I think it is, again, throwing the baby out with the bath water to mark down ME2 just because most of its DLC was crappy and overpriced. With the exception of Shadow Broker and maybe, maybe The Arrival only because it contains a major plot point, the core product did not suffer for their lack of inclusion, and said core product was still excellent.

there's no way I can win.

I'm ok with this. ;3

To get around it we'd have to do a blow by blow of what makes Deus Ex or Planescape great and what its failings were vs some comparable contemporary game. I don't really have the energy or level of investment to argue that hard, and I never finished either game anyway. Even when it was new I could never get more than a few hours into Deus Ex before losing interest, so if you'd like an excuse to disregard my opinion, there it is. I'd still count myself on the winning side because I can still enjoy new games. ;P

[Icemage]

Re: Another strike for Blizzard, DiabloIII!

Coming from the same people that said they pulled content as an "to speed up the approval process" and said n DA2 "lowering the barrier of entry" for those unfamiliar with RPGs, I trust Bioware's reasons about as far as I can throw them.

They pulled content to make a fast buck and rush their games to retail.

They didn't just lower the barrier of entry for DA2, they made their very own DX2: Invisible War.

Lair of the Shadow Broker came waaaay later than the rest of the DLC. While I'm sure they could have probably delayed the game a few more months to get it into the main game, there were plausible reasons to not include it on the base game (see below).

Right, because they couldn't bring themselves to use another disc if they had to.

It was nickel-and-diming, nothing more.

C'mon, BBQ. You're better than this.

Mass Effect 2 for Xbox 360 comes on two discs, and you have to swap discs in between parts of the game.


Icemage

[Taskmage]

Re: Another strike for Blizzard, DiabloIII!

Mass Effect 2 for Xbox 360 comes on two discs, and you have to swap discs in between parts of the game.

Huh. So the first four dossiers and Horizon were on disc 1 and the rest was on disc 2 I suppose? It wouldn't have occured to me that the split was because of storage limitations, but it makes sense.

---------- Post added at 09:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 PM ----------

So hey, I heard Shakespeare was a happening dude, but man everyone's just got nostalgia goggles for him.

If you were making the claim that nothing good had been written since Shakespeare, then yes I would assume some pretty warped perspective on your part.

[Icemage]

Re: Another strike for Blizzard, DiabloIII!

Huh. So the first four dossiers and Horizon were on disc 1 and the rest was on disc 2 I suppose? It wouldn't have occured to me that the split was because of storage limitations, but it makes sense.

Yes, hence my comment above:

For that matter, the major malfunction of ME2 on Xbox 360 isn't the lack of included DLC, but the fact that the limitations of DVD storage warped the design of the game itself (ever wonder why you only get one set of dossiers right away? That's why.).

Basically what happened was the Xbox 360 version couldn't handle all of the dossiers on one disc, so it had to be separated out into two groups because there just wasn't enough room. This change was also forced onto the PC (and eventually the PS3) versions as well; in fact, the entire middle part of the game revolved around this limitation.

If you own the PC version, you can actually see proof that this is so because there is left over game code that you can trigger by hacking the "2nd set" characters into your party and attending various missions in the first half of the game.

For instance: Tali'Zorah nar Rayya/Unique dialogue - Mass Effect Wiki - Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, walkthroughs and more

Secret dialogue cannot normally be triggered due to the game's plot advancement requirements, and is only accessible by using the Coalesced Editor to add Tali to the player's party.

On Omega, upon finding the burning bodies, Tali will engage her suit's olfactory filters and anti-nausea medication.

On Omega, during Archangel's recruitment mission, if you choose to leave her to defend him, they will comment on it being "just like old times".

On Omega, when entering the Quarantine zone before doing Mordin's recruitment mission, Tali will note that her suit filters will take care of any potential issues unless it is breached, noting that in that case she'd probably be dead anyway.

On Jack's recruitment mission, upon coming across the prisoner being tortured, Tali will disapprove of it by saying that "No matter what they did, they dont deseve that."

Icemage

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Another strike for Blizzard, DiabloIII!

If you were making the claim that nothing good had been written since Shakespeare, then yes I would assume some pretty warped perspective on your part.

His claim is more along the lines of that nothing quite as "timeless" has been written since Shakespeare.

Yes, that was the sound of Lewis Carroll and Emily Dickinson rolling in their graves. And that's just in English alone!

[cidbahamut]

Re: Another strike for Blizzard, DiabloIII!

To get around it we'd have to do a blow by blow of what makes Deus Ex or Planescape great and what its failings were vs some comparable contemporary game. I don't really have the energy or level of investment to argue that hard, and I never finished either game anyway. Even when it was new I could never get more than a few hours into Deus Ex before losing interest, so if you'd like an excuse to disregard my opinion, there it is. I'd still count myself on the winning side because I can still enjoy new games. ;P

I think I'm gonna take this and run with it all the way to the goal post. I'm also gonna chalk up some of this to us simply having different taste in games.

[Taskmage]

Re: Another strike for Blizzard, DiabloIII!

Yep. I have the same problem with BioShock. I've probably never gotten more than about an hour in. Both games and their sequels are sitting in my Steam library queued up and waiting for me to educate myself in the classics and get caught up for modern sequels, but after playing their opening sections 3-4 times each over the years I just can't make myself get interested in them.

Anybody else had the opposite experience of going back to a game they remember being great and being let down? I played through the Descent: Freespace campaign probably a dozen times back in the day, but a few months ago when I fired it up with the HD mod, it just seemed very dull to me. Same with KotOR. I picked it up for my son remembering I had loved it, but he couldn't get into it at all, and when I sat down with it again I couldn't either.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Another strike for Blizzard, DiabloIII!

C'mon, BBQ. You're better than this.

Mass Effect 2 for Xbox 360 comes on two discs, and you have to swap discs in between parts of the game.

And Final Fantasy XIII for 360 comes on four discs, if I'm recalling it correctly. Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion was on two. Sounds like it all comes down to coding an asset creation/recycling to me

My point still stands. They could have delayed the game and made a three-disc game instead of a two-disc one. Considering the majority of ME2 is a handful of small on-rails areas, I'm going to have to say sloppy, inefficant asset usage, lousy coding and greed are our primary culprits for "running out" of space on two discs as it is.

They opted to nickel-and-dime 360 gamers while fighting the used market, that was the only reason to rush the game.

People are starting to notice this and remember how things were last gen, the resentment I show regarding this practice is starting to be echoed by many more gamers. Maybe not Bioware's fanboys, but then, DA2 did kind of shake people for the idea that Bioware can do no wrong.

I have a feeling TOR will show the Emperor has no clothes.

And I don't mean Palpantine... whoa... there's a thought I didn't want.

[Kailea]

Re: Another strike for Blizzard, DiabloIII!

Dead Island shows what happens when you rush a game....

It was buggy as hell, the save glitch and duping bug should have never made it past first beta wave (makes me thing there was not even beta testing on this game) and half of the limited editions bonuses where not even ready at launch -.-

Games like this, the state that programers have gotten into today, "we can patch it later" and "oh lets just make that DLC" really not acceptable.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Another strike for Blizzard, DiabloIII!

Anybody else had the opposite experience of going back to a game they remember being great and being let down?

Super Mario World on the virtual console. Apart from Nintendo somehow ruining some of the music from the original completely, you know that feeling you get when you return to a playground that you used to play on all the time as a kid after you've grown up, and it's nowhere as big as you remember it to be? It was kind of like that.

At least accomplishing a "No non-boss kills" run was interestingly challenging.

I had the opposite problem with Super Mario Kart. I still have yet to get the gold in the 150cc Special Cup on the virtual console, even though I probably did it over a decade ago.