2011 TGS stuff thread

[Icemage]

Re: 2011 TGS stuff thread

At this point, I'm not going to be surprised if Square-Enix pulls out on that transferable Vita version of FFX. Why do that when you can cross-platform it for more money?

That wouldn't surprise me either, considering that Square-Enix apparently just green-lit the PC version of Deus Ex: Human Revolution to start displaying in-game advertising during loading screens..

Le sigh.


Icemage

[Raydeus]

Re: 2011 TGS stuff thread

Speaking of that, when is that supposed to take effect? Because all the recent patch did was completely kill my frame rate whenever I got close to any texture until I disabled Anisotropic filtering and downgraded to trilinear (ducts were reaally fun before discovering that.)

Bonus minus points if you consider before the patch I was running the game at max settings without a single problem or fps drop.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 2011 TGS stuff thread

Where in my post do you get the "memory card missing is acceptable"? I went out of my way to say that they really do need to include some form of reasonable storage as standard with the unit, since you basically can't play ANY game without some sort of storage.

You surely seem to suggest you're willing to put up with it. Here:

On a personal level, it doesn't bug me "that" much, as I was expecting the unit to be like $350 anyway, so I just chalk that up to the reduced cost of the unit itself, but that's not a value proposition that's going to go over well with every consumer.

Its a roundabout way of saying, "I'm willing to have the Deliverance moment on this, but I can see why some people wouldn't want to."

It's stupid, as is the 3DS Slide Pad; less immediately visible, but forcing consumers to buy an overpriced proprietary product is lame. The 3DS Slide Pad splits the install base and makes life unpleasant for developers, and reduces the convenience factor of the 3DS. Not having an included memory card makes life unpleasant (once) for the consumer in terms of cost, but it doesn't affect the form factor nor how the games themselves play, but the price factor is way higher. Which of the two is worse, I have no idea, but they both suck.

The slide pad does nothing to split the consumer base - its 100% OPTIONAL. Hands-on stories from TGS confirm this for Monster Hunter and other games that people thought it would require.

And the slide pad is a "once" $20 cost as much as the memory cards, but its cost is much lower and said to feel rather comfortable for its optional use. The Vita with no storage at launch makes the cost more obvious and painful because most people who owned a PSP know that a dinky 4GB isn't going to get them very far and that transferring games between the PSP and PS3 via USB was a hassle. The hassle will not change for Vita, but it could be mitigated somewhat with adequate on-board storage and real, affordable storage options.

As for the piracy thing, I don't think Sony have come out and said it's an anti-piracy measure: that's simply speculation on my part

Its some pretty lousy speculation. Simplest answer here is the best one: Sony's too proud to follow the lead of the market leader on storage and want the extra money to make up for the hit they're taking on Vita. I understand they want to sell their stuff, but when the competition is giving away SD cards as a pack in and allowing you the option to upgrade cheaply, you do not go the premium route - you match that shit.

Anyway, I think this is going to send developers running back to PSP or 3DS. Vita is very clearly rushed-to-market and incomplete in ways 3DS never was. They need to postpone the launch and go back the drawing board because only a sucker would buy this as it is now.

[Kailea]

Re: 2011 TGS stuff thread

all this BS at TGS....and some people wonder why I am reverting back to the good old 8-16 bit days...... -.-

[Icemage]

Re: 2011 TGS stuff thread

You surely seem to suggest you're willing to put up with it. Here:

Its a roundabout way of saying, "I'm willing to have the Deliverance moment on this, but I can see why some people wouldn't want to."

See, that's the difference between you and me. I'm willing to separate what's fine for me, and what's fine for the average consumer, because frankly I'm not the average consumer. I buy way more games than most people, and I play a lot more genres than most. For me, the cost is not a huge issue because it's a one-time charge - inflated perhaps, and annoying, but given my original expectations on the cost of ownership, I can justify it into my budget. That's not the same thing as it being fine for the majority of potential owners, however.

You always seem to want to project whatever you feel is good for you onto the rest of the market.

The slide pad does nothing to split the consumer base - its 100% OPTIONAL. Hands-on stories from TGS confirm this for Monster Hunter and other games that people thought it would require.

And the slide pad is a "once" $20 cost as much as the memory cards, but its cost is much lower and said to feel rather comfortable for its optional use.

And good luck fitting something the size of a 360 controller into your pocket. As for "optional", sure it's optional - right up until the point where Nintendo releases a redesigned 3DS with a 2nd slide pad built in (unless you really think they won't pull a Wii Motion+, but if so I've a bridge to sell you). Sure, developers will have to continue to support units without a second pad because they have to, but if a redesign really comes down the line, have fun playing any sort of twin-analog game that gets ported or developed without that second analog, especially any game with a competitive online mode.

The Vita with no storage at launch makes the cost more obvious and painful because most people who owned a PSP know that a dinky 4GB isn't going to get them very far and that transferring games between the PSP and PS3 via USB was a hassle. The hassle will not change for Vita, but it could be mitigated somewhat with adequate on-board storage and real, affordable storage options.

Again, where am I arguing against this?

Its some pretty lousy speculation. Simplest answer here is the best one: Sony's too proud to follow the lead of the market leader on storage and want the extra money to make up for the hit they're taking on Vita. I understand they want to sell their stuff, but when the competition is giving away SD cards as a pack in and allowing you the option to upgrade cheaply, you do not go the premium route - you match that shit.

Of course Sony never considers any of these factors before they bring something to market, and you're the only one to come to this realization. Yup.

Anyway, I think this is going to send developers running back to PSP or 3DS. Vita is very clearly rushed-to-market and incomplete in ways 3DS never was. They need to postpone the launch and go back the drawing board because only a sucker would buy this as it is now.

Now who's speculating?

I don't think developers are going to run off screaming into the woods because people have to buy a memory card. Especially because retailers (being the smart cookies that some of them are) will undoubtedly bundle a card and a system together if Sony doesn't get their act together and do it themselves first. Slightly higher cost of ownership might disturb developers, but I think you're blowing the increase in cost a little out of proportion - it's not like you're forced to buy a 32GB card, and it's not like developers are going to go out and design games for people without a card (unlike the 3DS Slide Pad).

As for the 3DS, it was missing a lot of things when it launched (the eShop being the most notorious), and the Vita's not out yet. We'll see how things stack up in a couple months when the Vita launches in Japan. I wouldn't be surprised if the Vita has its own growing pains when it first launches (like all new hardware launches tend to have), however.


Icemage

[Armando]

Re: 2011 TGS stuff thread

I have to side with BBQ on this one. Sony is showing its greed just like they did with the PSP. I overlooked it back then because flash memory cards weren't as ubiquitous (or at least they didn't seem so to me.) But SD cards are everywhere now, Sony lost that format war. Paying a 200% mark-up for a memory card I can't use on my other devices is dumb as fuck.

[Icemage]

Re: 2011 TGS stuff thread

I have to side with BBQ on this one. Sony is showing its greed just like they did with the PSP. I overlooked it back then because flash memory cards weren't as ubiquitous (or at least they didn't seem so to me.) But SD cards are everywhere now, Sony lost that format war. Paying a 200% mark-up for a memory card I can't use on my other devices is dumb as fuck.

I don't really think Sony's trying to impose a new stick format on the world (unlike with the Memory Stick, where they at least had a window of opportunity which they missed). What leads you to that conclusion? It's obvious that SD/SDHC is here to stay for the time being, and they're still bucking the trend.

It could be greed, but I doubt that even a company as big on manufacturing as Sony is going to go out of their way to incur the increased cost of production on those cards (because it's NOT standard, and it WILL cost them "more" to make) and pass that cost on to the consumer (which they are doing, in spades) without more reasons than simple greed. That's a pretty notable increase in base cost of ownership

Tossing in a 2GB stick into the packaging would fix most of these problems. At least that way people aren't forced at gunpoint to buy a card separately unless they're a heavy user and they're going to need it.

As for interoperability, I don't really consider memory card interchangeability to be a huge plus for a handheld gaming device. It's not like you can stick the card into your PC and play the games on your PC (or PS3, or any other device). The only case where I think it might be handy is if they had chosen to use SD cards you could copy saves to/from your PS3 or some such.


Icemage

[Armando]

Re: 2011 TGS stuff thread

I don't really think Sony's trying to impose a new stick format on the world (unlike with the Memory Stick, where they at least had a window of opportunity which they missed). What leads you to that conclusion? It's obvious that SD/SDHC is here to stay for the time being, and they're still bucking the trend.

Doesn't matter if they are or aren't trying to push a new standard on the world. They're trying to push their own sticks on their users for no good reason, and they'll succeed, because there are people that want a PSVita that badly. What's next? Proprietary USB connectors? Like you said, they had a chance to compete with SD back then, but now? It's just pure greed.

As for interoperability, I don't really consider memory card interchangeability to be a huge plus for a handheld gaming device. It's not like you can stick the card into your PC and play the games on your PC (or PS3, or any other device). The only case where I think it might be handy is if they had chosen to use SD cards you could copy saves to/from your PS3 or some such.

I have four SD cards, one of them being an 8 GB one. Because they want me to use their sticks, I can't use any of my cards - I have to put up with exorbitant prices for something I already own, just so I can use it with their hardware.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 2011 TGS stuff thread

It boils down to giving the consumer a choice for me.

While I seriously doubt I'll ever need more than the 2GB card for my 3DS, its nice that if I want to upgrade I can go out and get a bigger SD card without breaking the bank.

For Vita, I'd just have to go with whatever's most reasonably priced and can hold a transferred PS2 game on top of whatever else I wanted to have on the thing normally. So that's probably a 16 GB card at minimum.

Chances are I could get a bigger HDD for my PS3 for what I'd pay for a 16GB card for Vita, though. Right now I believe the 16GB ProDuo retails at $69.99 or $79.99. 16GB SD would run me maybe $35.

The problem isn't the proprietary format so much as the problem is really that Sony thinks their format is something special.

Its not.

The gimping of the HD collections is a real buzzkill, too. I kind of liked the idea of being able to play MGS2 and being able to transfer it to Vita and pick up where I left off and back to the PS3 when I got home. In a lot of ways, this was going to be the one thing that would have allowed me to let PS3's lack of BC go.

Oh well, at least this time I can blame greedy third parties for backing out rather than blame Sony, though I have to wonder why Sony is letting them get away with forsaking such a compelling feature.

I bet the excuse from third parties will be "piracy."

---------------

Anyway, I'm curious if the Capcom english localization team skipped out on MH Portable 3rd for PSP and the HD version for PS3 in favor of MHT 3G for 3DS.

Its not always the case, but sometimes Nintendo has proven to be a better home for some franchises than others in the west. Dragon Quest has seen more success of late with Nintendo than it did with Sony platforms on either side of the pond in prior generations. MHT also did better on Wii than any MH PSP game released in the West, so there's also that.

I still think the 3DS iteration of MHT will be a huge shake-up for Japan, but I'm very interested to hear about when it will be coming west. These kinds of games are nice to have on-the-go.

[Malacite]

Re: 2011 TGS stuff thread

Paying a 200% mark-up for a memory card I can't use on my other devices is dumb as fuck.

That's not entirely true, though. I've always used SCANDISK sticks and they work just fine and cost about half or less or what the official SONY brand ones do.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 2011 TGS stuff thread

That's not entirely true, though. I've always used SCANDISK sticks and they work just fine and cost about half or less or what the official SONY brand ones do.

Yeah, but Sony made new proprietary cards so SanDisk couldn't do that for a while. If you want that 32 GB card for Vita, you have to go through Sony, SanDisk will not be an option.

Its pretty much why Sony did it, so they could get an influx of cash well before SanDisk ever could get a cut in on the PSV memory market..

Sony is the only entertainment business outside of EA that I know that can lose a war and go on pretending they didn't lose it.

Just the other day it was announced that DC Universe was going Free 2 Play.

This is SOE's baby. Their response?

To paraphrase, "Yeah, well, Free to play is the future anyway."

[Raydeus]

Re: 2011 TGS stuff thread

It doesn't really surprise me seeing DCUO going F2P considering how they screwed up with their lack of worthwhile content outside the main storylines. And then fate intervened and haxxors took them out for A WHILE.

Although I have to say it kinda surprises me it took them this long to switch.


PS > If Sony is really doing that crap with the memory I'm giving them the finger until they regain some sense.

[Malacite]

Re: 2011 TGS stuff thread

Yeah, but Sony made new proprietary cards so SanDisk couldn't do that for a while. If you want that 32 GB card for Vita, you have to go through Sony, SanDisk will not be an option.

Well, that just means I won't be an early adopter. But then again I never buy handhelds day 1 anyway.