Square Enix To Announce New MMO Title This Year

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Square Enix To Announce New MMO Title This Year

You haven't played in quite a while, have you?

Clean for about 17 months now, but I don't see what that has to do with anything.

FFXI could do anything it wanted with the story of WotG, which seems to suggest your role was to make sure Lady Lilith didn't get her way and change the future, but was assuming the timelines was linear. Abyssea seems to be in a divergent timeline.

Its still totally linear storytelling though. Players have no choice in where it goes and have to meet the same criteria to progress it. I assume fairies and shit are affected by things before the split.

Chrono Trigger and Cross deal in multiple potential outcomes. CT had several different endings, even one more in the DS version. And all of this based on making certain choices in certain timelines and/or choosing to engage Lavos in any of the timelines before/after a particular event occurs.

MMOs being ongoing, its critical to keep everyone on the same page, in the same stories meeting the same criteria. Sure, we could let them experience a dozen outcomes, but then you have to write the outcomes for the expansion, the outcome of those outcomes and you're headed to one massive clusterfuck at that point. And if you cherry pick one of the dozen outcomes as canon and discard the rest, expect unrest with your fans.

However, if you do assume all endings are true and canonize them all, you're asking for a massive clusterfuck the deeper you go in. This is why you don't make direct sequels to these games. Or expansions because at some point someone's going to see something that doesn't add up if you keep moving forward.

[Raydeus]

Re: Square Enix To Announce New MMO Title This Year

Abyssea is not a divergent Vana time line.

[Mhurron]

Re: Square Enix To Announce New MMO Title This Year

Clean for about 17 months now, but I don't see what that has to do with anything.

Well for one, it makes arguments based on experiences that haven't been correct for oh, 12 - 15 months or so completely pointless.

Chrono Trigger and Cross deal in multiple potential outcomes. CT had several different endings, even one more in the DS version. And all of this based on making certain choices in certain timelines and/or choosing to engage Lavos in any of the timelines before/after a particular event occurs.

No they don't really. There is one logical ending to the the whole thing. In all honesty, the rest are all fooling around and a quick way to introduce replayability. However, suggesting that you have finished Chrono Trigger without getting the 'real ending' i.e the one you would have got if you never knew about the others, would simply be wrong.

Chrono Trigger is just as linear as any FF, you would basically have the same problems making a MMO around its ideas as you would have had doing the same thing with FF.

[Absentia]

Re: Square Enix To Announce New MMO Title This Year

"I was trying to make a point and used FFXI as a reference. If it were correct I'd defend it strongly, but since others who still play can now prove my assumption wrong, it has nothing to do with anything."

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Square Enix To Announce New MMO Title This Year

Well for one, it makes arguments based on experiences that haven't been correct for oh, 12 - 15 months or so completely pointless.

And in months to come, your arguments might be pointless. They could just write a new story fundamentally changing what you know about the story of FFXI, to say nothing of strategies you once gave as advice. Feel free to have fun with that circle jerk.

No they don't really. There is one logical ending to the the whole thing. In all honesty, the rest are all fooling around and a quick way to introduce replayability. However, suggesting that you have finished Chrono Trigger without getting the 'real ending' i.e the one you would have got if you never knew about the others, would simply be wrong.

The ending that's true is whatever the player wanted the true ending to be. The creator or the game itself saying one ending is canon doesn't suddenly make it official for everyone, otherwise everyone would agree that Greedo shot first and not Han Solo.

1977 - Han shot first, killing Greedo
1997 SE - Greedo shot first, missed and Han shot him.
1998 SE DVD - Greedo and Han kinda shot at the same time, Greedo shooting twice and early if we slow it down. Han magically tilted his head to avoid the second shot and shot Greedo.
2012 3D Edition - ???

What will George Lucas decide now? His is the official word and even he can't fucking decide.

Obviously Sakaguchi wanted people to have their own opinion, so he never made a direct sequel to CT. Chrono Cross isn't a direct sequel, just a spiritual one. They played it safe.

[Malacite]

Re: Square Enix To Announce New MMO Title This Year

Abyssea is not a divergent Vana time line.

Did you not get to Shinryu? Yes it is.

Abyssea Story

Everything in Abyssea is exactly the same as Vana'diel up until the Promathia fight, where you lost. Everyone died except Prishe, which explains why you run into everyone's counter-part but your own. Selh'teus was absorbed by Promathia and he became Shinryu. He then proceeded to move Al'tieu to the Moon and began his reign of perpetual twilight. That's why the skies are permanently crimson & black and hordes of monsters are out to wipe out all life.

[Raydeus]

Re: Square Enix To Announce New MMO Title This Year

Parallel universe != divergent time line.

[Murphie]

Re: Square Enix To Announce New MMO Title This Year

And in months to come, your arguments might be pointless. They could just write a new story fundamentally changing what you know about the story of FFXI, to say nothing of strategies you once gave as advice. Feel free to have fun with that circle jerk.

Irrelevant. You made this reference right now, attempting to prove a point. You were wrong. Being wrong isn't the end of the world. Why can you just say "Ok, my bad - let me use a different reference."

It's not a circle jerk to say "the game is like this now."

[cidbahamut]

Re: Square Enix To Announce New MMO Title This Year

BBQ has trouble admitting fault or "backing down" as he puts it.

[Malacite]

Re: Square Enix To Announce New MMO Title This Year

>.> why would you use that in your sig Murphie o-O

[Murphie]

Re: Square Enix To Announce New MMO Title This Year

Because it happened!

[Balfree]

Re: Square Enix To Announce New MMO Title This Year

And was sexy.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Square Enix To Announce New MMO Title This Year

Parallel universe != divergent time line.

A parallel universe is a divergent timline running parallel to another. A different choice was made, events panned out differently. Go watch Star Trek 2009 and then "Mirror, Mirror" from the TOS series. They're the same thing in science-fiction.

See also: Multiverse.

Vana'diel is just one paradox after another anyway. So wth all these strange versions of reality, there's plenty of room for a parallel timeline here and Abyssea seems very likely to be that.

Irrelevant. You made this reference right now, attempting to prove a point. You were wrong. Being wrong isn't the end of the world. Why can you just say "Ok, my bad - let me use a different reference."

I drew a point from when last I played, based on what I understood of the Abyssea is which didn't take a huge leap considering all the implications of what WotG could be doing. That and I can still access YouTube and the wiki for FFXi's story. Malacite just backed up my claim. He has likely finished Abyssea or experienced more of it - have you?

The real point, which you have missed by choice, apparently,is that a game like Chrono Trigger has difficulty translating into a good MMORPG after its starting point. If we're faithfully following the concept of Chrono Trigger in the context of an MMORPG then we have a game with multiple endings based upon where thing ended in a particular timeline.

In an MMORPG, wouldn't the first expansion have to assume all those endings are relevant in some way and move forward with them? MMORPGs become a very personal experience to the player just based on investment alone. The creator takes a big risk in assuming their concept of where the timelines stop and start would be risky unless they continued them all.

Ever play Deus Ex. No? Well, i'm going to spoil it anyway because its a good example of how problematic canonizing multiple endings can be.

In the end of Deus Ex, JC Denton is presented with the following choices:

- Merge with Helios, become a god and link with all human consciousness
- Kill the bad guy, which disbands the Illuminati
- Shut down the power grid and internet connecting the entire world, inducing a new Dark Age.

Deus Ex: Invisible War doesn't pick any of those, it picks all of them. JC Denton merges with Helios, kills the bad guy and triggers the next Dark age. It assumes a little truth and robs a little truth from each bleak ending. Of course, there were people that though disbanding the Illuminati was a good ending, but killing them off just removed benefactors from people in need. Becoming a god might have good intent, but ultimately requires robbing all humanity of individuality. A second dark age's implications return the world to prejudice and paranoia.

And some people wanted to believe JC was good no matter how naive that was because they played him and made his choices, which were all bad, none of them pretty but by gamer logic of the time always "good" since he's the protagonist.

So assuming one particular ending or a number of them to be true is a risk. DX:IW was not well-received for a number of reasons, these being among them. Even if the players missed the point of the very name of the game (which parodies the idea of there being a magical fix or an easy way out, yet uses one as the basis of a sequel), the should be allowed to take that story as the saw it and remember it that way.

I shouldn't have to explain at this point how that could be disruptive to a Chrono Trigger MMORPG that has multiple endings, to say nothing or the inevitable clusterfuck of more branching timelines would bring in expansions if they were to be "true" to the game.

This is why Deus Ex: Human Revolution pretty much ignores the other games and is stand-alone. This is why Chrono Trigger's only sequel is a spiritual seque - and people get up in arms about that, too, either because they want it to be a sequel or thing SE tried to make it a sequel when neither is the case.

You can tell a linear story - even one with an alternate timeline - and not have a problem so long as you're not doing multiple endings. FFXI does not do them, so it dodges the bullet. Its just exploring a "what if."

Its best not to fuck with the player's idea of the story or the games world when you allow them so much agency prior to multiple endings. Would you want Chrono to start talking or keep your idea of how he sounds? You might not like what SE choses, so what's the better way?

Now, that is the best way I can articulate this. This is why I think a Chrono Trigger MMORPG can't work. If you want to flail around my take on the FFXI story because you disagree with it, feel free. I was just trying to explain why an Chrono Trigger MMORPG couldn't possibly work - I don't give a damn what you believe the FFXI story to be or care about anyone's need to chest-thump that you still play or not.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Square Enix To Announce New MMO Title This Year

See also: Multiverse.

No.

Go read your DM manual again.

[Armando]

Re: Square Enix To Announce New MMO Title This Year

The real point, which you have missed by choice, apparently,is that a game like Chrono Trigger has difficulty translating into a good MMORPG after its starting point. If we're faithfully following the concept of Chrono Trigger in the context of an MMORPG then we have a game with multiple endings based upon where thing ended in a particular timeline.

CT is not a good example of a game with multiple endings because there's essentially only 1 timeline. There's one "true" ending at the end of the timeline and all other possible endings are simply the result of cutting the adventure short. So while CT has multiple endings, they're more or less artificial.

CT doesn't have multiple story paths like you're implying. The choice of killing Magus or letting him live have minimal effect on the plot. You still go on to explore the Black Omen, retrieve the Rainbow Shell, face Magus' generals, etc. Same thing with destroying the Epoch - the ending is essentially the same. No matter what you do in CT, the same sequence of major plot events will unfold as long as you choose not to end the game.

Also I don't see how you can say Chrono Cross is not a true sequel considering it made clear allusions to the events of Chrono Trigger, and the new DS ending helps fill in the gaps. It may take place years later, in a different part of the world, with a different set of characters, but you can't tell me it's not a sequel. CC also invalidates most premature endings the player may want to believe are canon, so the player's desires are irrelevant. CC is canon and the DS ending is now the One True Ending to Chrono Trigger.