David Cage thinks Heavy Rain created a genre

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

David Cage: We Own The Interactive Story-Telling Genre - News

By Svend Joscelyne

So, there I was at the BAFTAs last night, and who did I bump into but Quantic Dream's David Cage, obviously happy about how well Heavy Rain had done. I asked him the following question:

"What’s next for you? Will you continue try push barriers of interactive storytelling or build more bridges in other genres?] We want to build on what we have discovered with Heavy Rain?"

And boy, did he let rip:

"We created the genre. We own the genre, and we want to show that Heavy Rain was not a coincidence or a lucky shot - that it was really something that makes sense and that we can build on.

"But at the same time I didn’t want to make a sequel. I made that very clear before knowing whether the game would be a success or a failure, because I want to show that it’s really a genre. Which means that you can use a similar drama to tell any type of story in any genre and in any style.

"So, we are going to explore different directions. Still very dark, still for adults, but completely different from Heavy Rain. We want to satisfy our fans, but we want to surprise them too. That’s our challenge."

Really, now, Mr. Cage?

Really?

















I think these games would like a word with you, sir.

Also, did he forget he made Indigo Prophecy?

[DakAttack]

Re: David Cage thinks Heavy Rain created a genre

So...

Other than that being a completely sensationalist article, he never named the genre he claimed to own. He could be pushing the barriers of interactive story-telling in the purple monkey dishwasher genre for all we know.

[Aeni]

Re: David Cage thinks Heavy Rain created a genre

@ Dak, bolded for emphasis.

"What’s next for you? Will you continue try push barriers of interactive storytelling or build more bridges in other genres?] We want to build on what we have discovered with Heavy Rain?"

And boy, did he let rip:

"We created the genre. We own the genre, and we want to show that Heavy Rain was not a coincidence or a lucky shot - that it was really something that makes sense and that we can build on.

I think it's pretty clear there was no miscommunication in this conversation between those two people.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: David Cage thinks Heavy Rain created a genre

What was it they said in Scarface?

"Never get high on your own supply."

David Cage is a game director that would rather be a movie director because he feels games aren't enough like movies. We have game journalists out there looking for the Citizen Kane of games in hopes of legitimizing games to the mainstream and the older generation that thinks their kid's stuff. They want legitimacy for games.

Movies were around for 60 years before they gained mainstream acceptance. Lots of old folks just didn't care for them movin' pictures, even after sound and voice got added to them. Yet when they died off it was something perfectly normal to anyone else.

Developers and journalists that just want to make movies or write about them should go try and do so. Let people that want to push the limits of gaming make games and push the limits of interactive storytelling. As much as I hate on Bioware at times, I think a lot more of them and their games than I do Heavy Rain.

And even though Shenmue is one of the many games that paved the way for Heavy Rain, it still prides itself in being a game, as do the others. Shenmue never thinks its a movie - it does game things like fighting.

[Meridan]

Re: David Cage thinks Heavy Rain created a genre

Heavy Rain is amazing to me, though I'll be honest when I say I haven't really played anything else that was similar to it. The story was amazing, the control scheme was interesting, and I stayed up a few nights in a row trying to get all the endings and trophies. Maybe they're not revolutionizing gaming, but it was seriously one of the best games I've played.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: David Cage thinks Heavy Rain created a genre

Heavy Rain is amazing to me, though I'll be honest when I say I haven't really played anything else that was similar to it. The story was amazing, the control scheme was interesting, and I stayed up a few nights in a row trying to get all the endings and trophies. Maybe they're not revolutionizing gaming, but it was seriously one of the best games I've played.

Most of the time, adventure games just steer you directly toward answer by a process of elimination of the choices given to you. If you fail to give the right answer, you repeat the scenario or puzzle until you get it right and you can progress the story.

Heavy Rain gives you this illusion that your choices are meaningful ones and even lets you take a particular path for a bit, whatever path you choose, the answer this time just forces itself on you. So the choice was these other paths and their diversions, but not within the core story.

Spoiler tag for the people the Oragami Killer is just not obvious to

So on and on you go wondering who this oragami killer is - but you're never given the satisfaction of solving that, really. Detective Scott Shelby just outs himself eventually. There's no series of events you can follow that might make someone else be the killer or let you conclude yourself in-game that it is Shelby

An adventure game thrives on the illusion of freedom, the illusion you really had a choice in the story, you can only steer the player so much before you risk breaking the illusion. The way Heavy Rain goes around it is by giving you a series of choices that really amount to beating around the bush, but still lead to the same key end point. There might be different endings for the paths you took and that's cute, but when you realize the game was just stalling for time, it feels a bit lame.

The adventure genre has good 35 years of history, predated by pen-and-paper roleplaying and war games. So its deeply insulting to the intelligence of any gamer to say this is a brand new thing Heavy Rain is doing, to say nothing of the people that truly pioneered and evolved the genre.

In the 80s, games like Zelda and Metroid were evolutionary action-based takes on the genre. Rather than using dialog prompts, players were taught to look for visual cues and make use of their inventory to solve puzzles in real time than typing out the choices. And adventure elements can be found in GTA, Metal gear, Okami and countless other games out there today - much of what we play (RPGs especially) take influence from adventure.

Even the likes of the recent story-driven Fight Night Champion game borrow from adventure. The next big games on the horizon that bear adventure qualities most strongly are L.A. Noire, Mass Effect 3, Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and Zelda: Skyward Sword.

And I'll bet dollars to donuts that LA Noire will be huge because Rockstar has so much experience with adventure game elements and storytelling - Red Dead Redemption wasn't perfect, but it bore a maturity that GTA didn't start sporting so much til GTAIV. LA Noire is very much based on classic adventure games, you're really going to investigate crimes, fine clues, look for lies in witness testimony as they're telling it to you and while there will be action, much of this is how you'll progress the game.

Watch David Cage take credit for that game's success. And watch the world /facepalm when he does. At any rate, you won't see Dan Hauser out there patting himself on the back for inventing the genre.

[Meridan]

Re: David Cage thinks Heavy Rain created a genre

Okay, the origami killer doesn't change...whatever. The game was never designed to have a different killer in the end. Actually, it's kinda stupid to expect there to be different killers in different endings. You basically start the game looking for the killer, and there shouldn't suddenly be a different identity if you kill character A or let him live. The abduction has already happened.....

You go through the story from start to finish and the ending is basically the same, but there are different cut scenes and "good" and "bad" endings that I enjoyed playing through.

I agree that David Cage was full of shit when it came to inventing the genre, but is there anything wrong with rehashing a good idea? Just because it's not inventing a new genre doesn't totally disqualify all of it's merits. You're taking this as all black and white...David Cage is full of himself, but he also created a quality game that many people enjoy, even if it's not up to your standards.

Have you actually played through the different endings? Things can change pretty drastically based on actions you take throughout the story..we're not talking extremely minor things here.

[DakAttack]

Re: David Cage thinks Heavy Rain created a genre

@ Dak, bolded for emphasis.



I think it's pretty clear there was no miscommunication in this conversation between those two people.

The emphasis doesn't change anything.

[Malacite]

Re: David Cage thinks Heavy Rain created a genre

I loved Heavy Rain to death and would dearly like to see more out of Quantic Dream like it, but I do have to admit BBQ's right about him being a smug bastard. Heavy Rain is not the first of it's kind, but rather the next step in interactive story telling.

And nobody owns any particular genre, no matter how awesome they may be at it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: David Cage thinks Heavy Rain created a genre

The emphasis doesn't change anything.

It does if you use reading comprehension.

He said he created "the genre" as in the "interactive story" or "adventure." He was saying that Heavy Rain was the first of its kind before it was released. Which is funny, because its awfully similar to Indigo Prophecy - a game he made - and the adventure genre.

I wouldn't even say its the "next step" because of how poorly it used genre conventions and how ham-fisted the story was.

[Taskmage]

Re: David Cage thinks Heavy Rain created a genre

And nobody owns any particular genre, no matter how awesome they may be at it.

False. Everyone knows Treasure owns shmups.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: David Cage thinks Heavy Rain created a genre

False. Everyone knows Treasure owns shmups.

I still need to get Sin and Punishment 2 at some point.

[DakAttack]

Re: David Cage thinks Heavy Rain created a genre

It does if you use reading comprehension.

Oh right, I guess with all these internet surfing I do I just totally forget to comprehend what I'm reading.

[Aeni]

Re: David Cage thinks Heavy Rain created a genre

The emphasis doesn't change anything.

You are distorting the perspective with your own bias taint. I won't say anymore.

Don't get me wrong ... the same could be said back to me ... but I'm taking the literal viewpoint and not the "figurative", "symbolic" or "ambiguous" view point.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: David Cage thinks Heavy Rain created a genre

Oh right, I guess with all these internet surfing I do I just totally forget to comprehend what I'm reading.

Apparently so.

He doesn't have to name the genre he claims to own - we know what Heavy Rain's genre is.

Adventure.