The "WTF I don't even" gaming moment of the year

[Takelli]

Re: The "WTF I don't even" gaming moment of the year

Actually the first time I played FFT I did OK on all of the above, but mostly because I grinded the heck out of my party and had everyone learn Mana Shield and MP Regen. I think the only one where I really had any serious trouble was the solo fight with Wiegraf until I figured out I could just boost speed and start hitting him with extra turns.

Hahahaha... I did the same thing, and Auto Potion. I was unbeatable! lol. Its like cheating, but its so fucking funny when you get hit then heal up right away with a single potion! XD

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: The "WTF I don't even" gaming moment of the year

Sorry - a game can be perfectly balanced, but if the plot is boring/bad or the gameplay isn't fun/interesting/engaging, it's not that great either.

See your second qualifier there? "Gameplay?"

Great gameplay can always beat a bad or mediocre plot.

Mario has done it for 25 years now. I'm not playing KEY because of its creepy narrator bits or playing DKCR because I truly care about DK's plight. Do the light humerous moments amuse? Sure, but I wasn't playing to see them and Cranky's advice would have come to me regardless.

DKCR does make me crave bananas, though.

Pastry-themed levels in KEY, Sonic Colors and Mario Galaxy 2 aren't helping, either.

[Armando]

Re: The "WTF I don't even" gaming moment of the year

Great gameplay can always beat a bad or mediocre plot. Mario has done it for 25 years now.

Four problems with this argument:
1) You can't use games that aren't plot-driven as an example. It's not that Mario games have bad plots, it's that the plot doesn't matter. Try making an RPG with a bad plot or unlikeable characters, see what happens.
2) Just because the gameplay is solid, it doesn't mean everyone will sit through or be interested in the game. Clearly there's more to it than just the gameplay.
3) You continue to equate balance with fun. They're not one and the same. Tactics has good gameplay. Balanced? Nope. But still good.
4) Some people will play a game with bad gameplay if they like the story enough.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: The "WTF I don't even" gaming moment of the year

Four problems with this argument:
1) You can't use games that aren't plot-driven as an example. It's not that Mario games have bad plots, it's that the plot doesn't matter. Try making an RPG with a bad plot or unlikeable characters, see what happens.

The genre was not birthed by storytelling, it was by creating your own character and roleplaying. There are a lot of people that still go with the pen and paper and there are even video games that emulate that pen and paper philosophy. Having an RPG with no plot or just lack a guided plot is entirely possible and can be enjoyable and even better than one with a story-driven plot, just ask people that dig Elder Scrolls, Fallout or Etrian Odyssey.

A bad or mediocre story can be mitigated by good gameplay, a good story with bad gameplay faces an uphill battle. There's a reason I consider the Kingdom Hearts games on GBA, DS and PSP to be better and its because they cannot survive on good presentation alone.

2) Just because the gameplay is solid, it doesn't mean everyone will sit through or be interested in the game. Clearly there's more to it than just the gameplay.

Were that the case, we would have never recovered from E.T. on the Atari 2600. Expecting every game to be decent or good is fair, expecting every game's story to be compelling and have great characters is ridiculous. What one considers a good story is mostly subjective and I'm sure you have a few games I'd consider stinkers in terms of story just like you'd think I'd have a few.

I mean, a lot of people can sit through a bad movie if the special effects are good, I totally want to see Cowboys Vs. Aliens and that certainly isn't going to win any Oscars.

3) You continue to equate balance with fun. They're not one and the same. Tactics has good gameplay. Balanced? Nope. But still good.

Some people enjoy broken game mechanics, I guess. Some people can't find Ballista fun unless they go at it at max level. I won't go in there unless there's a 60 cap and items are kosher just like you're not going to jump into a Pokemon battle or TGC unless there are terms that are agreed upon and limits.

By definition, most SRPGs are unbalanced because they followed the single player RPG model, which is subsequently why any competitive multiplayer that follows that model without restrictions ultimately fails. There's a reason Advance Wars is fun in multiplayer and multiplayer Fire Emblem is hated.

There are ways to counteract the lack of balance, but grinding for hours upon hours just so the scales get tipped in your favor should not be one of them. Randomized field objectives, fast-paced objectives, Heroes, morale, economic factors (not just "enemy drops gil") and paper/rock/scissors applied to weapons and magic are ways of doing this.

VC doesn't have all of that, but it has much of it and its why I'd consider that a more balanced game. That and I don't have to sink two or three hours into a fight, only to lose it, which is something FFT does and Front Mission excels at.

Devil Survivor just goes with paper/rock/scissors and fast-paced objectives. The strengths and weaknesses of every unit are laid bare for you, so there's no excuses if you fail - but don't think grinding is going to let you dodge lightning if your unit weak to it. It willget paralyzed and pummeled.

4) Some people will play a game with bad gameplay if they like the story enough.

With the exception of Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2, I personally have found that impossible to do otherwise. Perhaps that's just because the gameplay is just mediocre more than bad.

I might be able to forgive a bad camera, as I clearly have with Epic Mickey but that's about as far as it goes otherwise.

[Malacite]

Re: The "WTF I don't even" gaming moment of the year

lol I made Ramza a DRK and he was even more OP than Cid (if you can believe that).

Hard to think of a more over powered PC than Cid too, except maybe Citan in Xenogears.