Schwarzeneggar v. EMA - Nov. 2nd Supreme Court Transcript

[Murphie]

Re: Schwarzeneggar v. EMA - Nov. 2nd Supreme Court Transcript

Seriously, I am hardly advocating we allow the government to dictate how we live our lives with regard to food, but I see nothing wrong with encouraging or discouraging certain behavior (ie: taxes on cigarettes). Especially for people who are on government assistance.

Also, this conversation is, like, totally relevant to the OP.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Schwarzeneggar v. EMA - Nov. 2nd Supreme Court Transcript

When someone else is paying the bill, you eat what they tell you to eat. Don't like it? Don't use food stamps.

Then let the people of New York vote on it because its their choice and their city, not Bloomberg's. One person shouldn't make that call, especially when there's sugar in so many things.

And why stop at sugar? What about high fructose corn syrup, which is just as bad, if not worse, and in so many more products its nearly impossible to shake? Can't even get canned fruit without the stuff.

If you really wanted to get the job done, food stamps would have to deny all foods and products with gluten. That can be pretty tricky. The FDA at present does not require companies to specify their products as gluten free.

The easiest way to avoid the headache of detecting it is just going with rice, vegetables, fruit and meats, but its sauces, processed foods and other things where it starts to get tricky again. Its not just the sweet things, I've seen HFCS get into Sausage links, of all things, I still don't quite get that one.

You can't buy alcohol with food stamps, OMG ITS THE DEATH OF RESPONSIBILITY!

And I think that's because people agreed - not just one jackass - that would be a really bad idea. DEMOCRACY!

If you like one guy just arbitrarily deciding things for you, I hear Venezuela is nice.

Seriously, I am hardly advocating we allow the government to dictate how we live our lives with regard to food

And with all the amazingly dumb things we see government do, why even give them a foothold on something that is going to be so ineffective?

The basis of that idea is just as flimsy as the California law. You can say "its the taxpayer's will" all you want (even though I see zero proof of that, as its just Bloomberg's idea at this point), but willing people to stop using sugar doesn't mean you've stopped them from getting fat.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Schwarzeneggar v. EMA - Nov. 2nd Supreme Court Transcript

Eh, that's not entirely right TGM.

No, it is entirely right. Canned and frozen veggies and fruits are not that gd expensive. Yes they aren't as good for you as fresh but they are better for you than junk food and usually cost LESS. (Bag of Doritos is $3.50-4.00 and a can/bag of veges/fruit is 1/2 that.) My daughter recieves food stamps and lived with me for nearly 2 years. I did not buy her food, she bought her own food for her and the kids. (I had 2 refrigerators, one in the basement.) I helped her make food plans for them, helped her learn RESONABLE portion sizes, and helped her shop. Her kids ate nutritious meals and snacks in proper portion sizes on a tight budget so don't tell me it can't be done.

And as I said before, keeping toys out of Happy Meals is going to do DIDDLY SQUAT! You can go into any McDs and buy the toy separately right now. So they keep the toy out of the meal but still offer it for sale, big whoop. Or run an offer like "Buy a hamburger, small fry, and junior drink or milk and get the toy free!" There is always a way around it and this law is utter bullshit.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Schwarzeneggar v. EMA - Nov. 2nd Supreme Court Transcript

High fructose corn syrup: the cornerstone of the American diet.

God that's depressing.

[Mhurron]

Re: Schwarzeneggar v. EMA - Nov. 2nd Supreme Court Transcript

Then let the people of New York vote on it because its their choice and their city, not Bloomberg's. One person shouldn't make that call, especially when there's sugar in so many things.

You seem to be in need of another refresher civics course. Todays lesson, how is representative democracy different from direct democracy.

Sugar, HFCS, gluten, and every other compound you are attempting to build that strawman with are not inherently evil. Excessive amounts of them, and many other things on the other hand are. As such, I see no problem with food stamps not covering foods that have ingredients in excess of what is deemed healthy. A government program should not be promoting unhealthy behavior.

[Ufgt]

Re: Schwarzeneggar v. EMA - Nov. 2nd Supreme Court Transcript

Yaaahhh... 1 guy DOES decide everything, whether you like it or not.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Schwarzeneggar v. EMA - Nov. 2nd Supreme Court Transcript

You seem to be in need of another refresher civics course. Todays lesson, how is representative democracy different from direct democracy.

Maybe you need the lesson.

Hell, I'll make it easy.

Current Events: November 2nd, 2010.

Notice how Republicans took the House? Seems there were quite a number of representatives that didn't represent their constituents and got sent home. Nancy Pelosi must be the best representative ever, because she's had the shortest speakership in history leading to the most historic Republican gains in the House since the 1940s.

Not only that, but now the majority of governors in America are Republican now.

The Senate was going to be tough to take, as lots of seats weren't up for re-election, but there were gains there as well, not a new majority, but a strong presence all the same.

What does it tell you? Aside from people are still unhappy with the economy, because that's only a part of it. Does it say Democrats have been representing the interests of the majority or that they chose not to listen and made mandates without listening to their constituents?

Your vote puts someone in office, but they're still obligated to listen to the people every step of the way. That didn't happen these last two years and it very much shows.

Bloomberg is not just obligated to what the vote said when he was elected, his obligation is to what the people tell him now, what the people who will vote next time will say. That goes for ANY politician, period. They are our servants, not the other way around. They need to be mindful of the people, because they people can change their minds. The platform you ran on might not be what they want a year from now. This goes especially for independents.

I told some of you this time two years ago the pendulum would swing back. And it came back hard. Hurts like a bitch, don't it?

[Murphie]

Re: Schwarzeneggar v. EMA - Nov. 2nd Supreme Court Transcript

"Hey guys, it's going to be totally useless, so why even bother trying?" BBQ, our nation's cheerleader.

And thank you for continuing to show you have no idea how the real world works. In just about every facet of life. I'm beginning to wonder if it's just awkwardness, or some sort of social disorder, or if you're like an alien or some sort of rudimentary android that was constructed to be vaguely human-like, but unfortunately your AI just isn't up to the task.

edit: God, I don't even care anymore. It's just so silly to even be engaging at this point.

[hexx]

Re: Schwarzeneggar v. EMA - Nov. 2nd Supreme Court Transcript

I agree the government should have no right in deciding what I do, and do not, let my child view as far as media is concerned. I've played my fair share of violent games, hell I've reveled in a few to be honest, but the fact remains that me, as a parent, have a choice and decision to make as to how early I will allow my offspring to play such games or view such media. I like the governator since he has done some good things for the state, but it is also pretty hypocritical of him to be behind this measure when a lot of his movies (which also spawned games) were pretty violent XD

To sum things up, the ESRB is a great guideline, problem is a lot of parents are too damn lazy to keep an active role in what their kids do, so they turn to the government to do the job for them, not realizing that they are A) forfeiting a right (and forcing others to forfeit it in the process), and B) just being fuckin lazy parents!

[Malacite]

Re: Schwarzeneggar v. EMA - Nov. 2nd Supreme Court Transcript

No, it is entirely right. Canned and frozen veggies and fruits are not that gd expensive. Yes they aren't as good for you as fresh but they are better for you than junk food and usually cost LESS. (Bag of Doritos is $3.50-4.00 and a can/bag of veges/fruit is 1/2 that.)

Actually to that end, Frozen Fruits & Veggies are actually healthier than fresh because every hour that goes by after they are off the vine or whatever plant they came from, they are losing their nutrients. But my point about taxing organic foods still stands, as it's totally absurd. We only tax junk food in Canada (that doesn't include coffee btw lol, I guess Coffee's been deemed "essential" ) and so I always just want to smack the woman in that commercial railing about a few cents tax on soda...

---------- Post added at 03:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------

Seriously, I am hardly advocating we allow the government to dictate how we live our lives with regard to food, but I see nothing wrong with encouraging or discouraging certain behavior (ie: taxes on cigarettes). Especially for people who are on government assistance.

More or less what I was driving at, ty. The Govt doesn't have the right to dictate to people how to live their lives, but at the same time when it's in the best interest of the collective, should be free to nudge folks in the right direction, like banning trans fat. It doesn't change the flavor that much and removing it from your diet will do wonders for your heart & cholesterol.

Just as an aside, quit pissing & moaning about the high cost of health care when so many people are overweight and obese (not that there aren't huge issues to debate like waste & medical fraud), which contributes massively to the problem. I'd be more angry over the public schools not teaching better health programs & making phys. ed. mandatory all the way up to Grade 12 (or w/e you call it there, but basically the last year of highschool or at least close to it). Again, a lot of that is personal responsibility but it doesn't hurt to set a good example early on.


EDIT: That last paragraph is just kind of a personal rant, and I don't mean to belittle the cost problem because that seriously a major f'ing problem, I was just making a point about how so many people being overweight is needlessly overtaxing the system.

[Ziero]

Re: Schwarzeneggar v. EMA - Nov. 2nd Supreme Court Transcript

I don't have kids, but I do know what I'm talking about here - my mom ran a daycare from the time I was born until about 3~4 years ago, and it doesn't take much to gets to go "OMG I WANT THAT! MOMMY CAN WE GO TO <insert store/restaurant here> PLEASE?!

I never really thought about it that much before, but I'm starting to notice just how awful & disgusting a lot of marketing really is with regards to younger demographics...

Good parents know how to say no. Commercials and such aimed at kids do crap because ultimately it's the parents who are the ones spending the money.

[Murphie]

Re: Schwarzeneggar v. EMA - Nov. 2nd Supreme Court Transcript

Seriously. I could want and ask and beg for things all the time. Didn't mean I got them. My mother just said no if she didn't want us to have it, and we soon realized that no meant no.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Schwarzeneggar v. EMA - Nov. 2nd Supreme Court Transcript

"Hey guys, it's going to be totally useless, so why even bother trying?" BBQ, our nation's cheerleader.

And thank you for continuing to show you have no idea how the real world works. In just about every facet of life. I'm beginning to wonder if it's just awkwardness, or some sort of social disorder, or if you're like an alien or some sort of rudimentary android that was constructed to be vaguely human-like, but unfortunately your AI just isn't up to the task.

edit: God, I don't even care anymore. It's just so silly to even be engaging at this point.

Oh don't back down now, Murphie. Whatever Mhurron replies, I'm just to ignore it because I want to hear your take. I just know Mhurron's going to be a condescending jerk anyway. It's not like I take him personally since he's cold and condescending to everyone when the subject isn't computers (what am I saying? its even then).

You've been back for a while, but one thing hasn't changed about you - you never back up much of what you set out to say. Instead , you fall back and wait for other people to speak what you agree with. This is because you never have been capable of articulating full opinions on the tough subjects (not even RDM melee), but man, you don't hesitate to personally attack when someone with different view of things articulates their feelings.

So I'd like you to put-up or shut-up. I want you to explain what I've gotten wrong here as one mature adult to another instead of just saying I'm wrong and then running away. Consider it as a thought exercise, because I know there's more worthwhile in there than that selective reading, cynicism and sarcasm.

I know politicans make promises
I know they get elected on promises and personal record.
I know not all promises can be kept.
I know you can't please everyone, but that you should listen to the people at back home, the people that put you there or could help put you there again.
If you vote for things they say they don't like, even if it goes against your political future or what another leader wants, they might not vote for you again.
If they feel strongly about it, they might vote for someone else or a different party.

I know that certain elected officials make appointments for committees and the like.
That those they nominate can vote on things that the feel reflect what the voters sent them to office for.
These people are not accountable to voters and can make law.

The California Happy Meal law, effective Dec 2nd. is one such law. A group of eight voted on that, I believe. Eight people not accountable to any voter in the state.

Kinda fucked up, though, as that's something I don't think anyone was elected to even appoint someone to do something of this nature.

Nor do I think Mayor Bloomberg was re-elected to take sugar off-food stamps in New York. I think they did it because they liked him before and hoped he'd do more good. Why is this suddenly something so important to him?

Why were video games so important to regulate further? We had the ESRB. The ESRB ratings are enforced more strongly than any other entertainment industry. And at the end of the day, with this law, kids still get their hands on M rated games if they really want them, though a legally aged sibling, adult or parent. Or Steam, PSN or XBLA.

To me, all of these are needless things. Tax-dollars and time went to waste on deciding them. These shouldn't have been any kind of priority.

As for the politician. I vote, I expect them to listen to me now and listen to me if things change. I actually do make emails from time to time to see. I'll do it on a small-time issue just to see if they're paying attention and not feeding me a canned reply. I know the difference.

Those people sent to the House, Senate, Governor's seat and the like I do expect to listen, but I hope they're listening to other viewpoints, too. I know they'll make appointments, committees and agendas based on the vote, but when people show up in Washington with signs in overwhelming numbers to tell them "NO", I'm hoping they'll hear the message this time.

Time will tell on that one. Didn't work last March and it cost 60 seats in the House on Tuesday. Well that among other things, anyway.

Now, that's my view. Ridicule it if you must, but I don't think I'm that far off-base unless you're just a lazy reader or a complete tool. Don't disappoint me.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Schwarzeneggar v. EMA - Nov. 2nd Supreme Court Transcript

Actually to that end, Frozen Fruits & Veggies are actually healthier than fresh because every hour that goes by after they are off the vine or whatever plant they came from, they are losing their nutrients.

SOMETIMES frozen fruit/veges can be just as nutritious as fresh. First you need to buy the stuff stamped USDA FANCY, second you'd have to know that they were processed and frozen correctly (flash frozen keeps longer and means a more nutrient rich product over time), and last you'd have to know how long they've been frozen. Manufacturer freezes and stores them until the Warehouse can pick them up and then store them until an order comes in that gets to that lot and then they are shipped out to a Distributer who then stores them until they can be put on the truck and shipped to the store where they are stored in the back till there is room in the freezer and then they sit there until you buy them. Thats a lot of traveling and sitting time and yes time frozen does affect the nutrient values of frozen foods.

The point is, there are alternatives to junk food even on a tight budget and people who say they can't afford it really aren't trying hard enough.

[Raydeus]

Re: Schwarzeneggar v. EMA - Nov. 2nd Supreme Court Transcript

My veggies don't care at all about the amount of nutrients they are theorically supposed to have as long as I eat them regularly.

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Geh, Activity Award! It's official, I have nothing better to do than spamming F5 on the main page!