Agito XIII and Versus XIII leaked gameplay

[Raydeus]

Re: Agito XIII and Versus XIII leaked gameplay

/


I'm not saying they are connected, after all TLR came out like 2 or 3 years after XII. What I'm saying is SE somehow managed to make a good game for the Xbox but failed with their Final Fantasy games?

It should have been the other way around.

FFXII has a decent story, which is like the minimum requirement for a FF game, but everything else was so poorly implemented it pretty much buried all the good stuff the game had.

Kinda the same way it happened with XIV.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Agito XIII and Versus XIII leaked gameplay

For me it was a flop. I HATED the game play of the FF game and I was VERY disappointed by it.

So was it a flop or a disappointment? Please make up your mind.

For most people, it was a disappointment.

For it to be a "flop" it would have to fail commercially.

See the difference? You don't get to make personal definitions with words you don't understand.

Not to mention Final Fantasy fans are so fickle they make the furry-loving Sonic fanbase seem driven by pure logic. Because here we go with the sort of vague bullshit that Mhurron, Malacite and Raydeus have to say about FFXII:

FFXII has a decent story, which is like the minimum requirement for a FF game, but everything else was so poorly implemented it pretty much buried all the good stuff the game had.

I mean, really, if you could sit there and whip together a macro set in FFXI with little effort, there's nothing too terribly complicated about the Gambit system or even FFVIII's Junctioning system, hell, FFXI and FFXIV exist at a level of tedium that FFXII and FFVIII don't even force on the player.

Mastery does not just come to the player, but the game can be beaten without mastering the system. Beating the bigger, optional challenges is what requires mastery of the system. Isn't that the way it should be. That's how it was for FFVI, FFVII and most of the others.

As for story - most people sick and tired of constantly being spoonfed narrative. People want to play a game, not watch a movie. The splendor of in-game cutscenes has faded, it was neat last generation but now its the norm and can be more frustrating than cool. Quite frankly, I don't want to wait 40 minutes for my first opportunity to save my game.

The beauty of having lore in a game is that a wealth of insight to the story can be added without having to have everything explained verbally. If you don't want everything left to the imagination, there's lots of lore to read; if you just wanna grind, see the basic story and don't care about the details, you don't have to read it.

Again, isn't that how it should be? Because in games like Final Fantasy XII, Elder Scrolls III and Metroid Prime, that's exactly how it is. I'd spend a lot of time just reading the books, logbooks and beastiaries of those games. It added to the world and let me use my imagination.

And reading the beastiary of FFXII paints a bigger picture for the story of Invalice. It details the exploits of King Raithwall, the common culture on Dalmasca and other cities, its professions, historical figures, the history of the demigods known as Espers. And then there's the hunts, which add another layer to the events and mythos of the game.

I'm sorry if these games don't explain everything to you and hold your hand so you only have to play the game once. When Japanese games start giving you choices and alternate paths, that must be hell for you guys because you can barely handle it when things are left to the imagination.

Well, here's a bit of advice for next year: Don't get Tactics Ogre: Let us Cling Together. Its not only made by the original TO team, they also happened to make FFT and FFXII. Oh, and there's choices that will affect the outcome of the story, who joins your group and other facets of that game. And it will have a markedly similar narrative approach, so don't bother with it. I'll enjoy it, though.

It doesn't say "Final Fantasy" on it or contain big-eyed lolis, so I doubt you'd touch it anyway.

[Fliegar]

Re: Agito XIII and Versus XIII leaked gameplay

Jeez BBQ, you're kind of a dick.

And to add to the topic... Go Final Fantasy go! *waves thumbs up Flag*

I actually liked XII, though it felt a little grindy, I've been playing MMO's for a decent chunk of my life, so it's not like it was that big of a deal. I'm looking forward to see what Agito is like though.

[Raydeus]

Re: Agito XIII and Versus XIII leaked gameplay

I mean, really, if you could sit there and whip together a macro set in FFXI with little effort, there's nothing too terribly complicated about the Gambit system or even FFVIII's Junctioning system, hell, FFXI and FFXIV exist at a level of tedium that FFXII and FFVIII don't even force on the player.

Mastery does not just come to the player, but the game can be beaten without mastering the system. Beating the bigger, optional challenges is what requires mastery of the system. Isn't that the way it should be. That's how it was for FFVI, FFVII and most of the others.

As for story - most people sick and tired of constantly being spoonfed narrative. People want to play a game, not watch a movie. The splendor of in-game cutscenes has faded, it was neat last generation but now its the norm and can be more frustrating than cool. Quite frankly, I don't want to wait 40 minutes for my first opportunity to save my game.

The beauty of having lore in a game is that a wealth of insight to the story can be added without having to have everything explained verbally. If you don't want everything left to the imagination, there's lots of lore to read; if you just wanna grind, see the basic story and don't care about the details, you don't have to read it.

Again, isn't that how it should be? Because in games like Final Fantasy XII, Elder Scrolls III and Metroid Prime, that's exactly how it is. I'd spend a lot of time just reading the books, logbooks and beastiaries of those games. It added to the world and let me use my imagination.

And reading the beastiary of FFXII paints a bigger picture for the story of Invalice. It details the exploits of King Raithwall, the common culture on Dalmasca and other cities, its professions, historical figures, the history of the demigods known as Espers. And then there's the hunts, which add another layer to the events and mythos of the game.

I'm sorry if these games don't explain everything to you and hold your hand so you only have to play the game once. When Japanese games start giving you choices and alternate paths, that must be hell for you guys because you can barely handle it when things are left to the imagination.

Well, here's a bit of advice for next year: Don't get Tactics Ogre: Let us Cling Together. Its not only made by the original TO team, they also happened to make FFT and FFXII. Oh, and there's choices that will affect the outcome of the story, who joins your group and other facets of that game. And it will have a markedly similar narrative approach, so don't bother with it. I'll enjoy it, though.

It doesn't say "Final Fantasy" on it or contain big-eyed lolis, so I doubt you'd touch it anyway.

I'd like to know where you got XII was complicated, or that it's narrative was somehow only for the few wise gamers who could find the subtle hints here and there. It was simply poorly done, it was a chore, period. It's like all those people defending the wards system in XIV trying to spin it off as somehow it being only for the hardcore (masochists maybe.)

Like being able to endure hours upon hours looking through bazaars for a decent piece of gear was epic and a proof of leetness. Laughable, that's what it is.

And there was nothing in XII that XI didn't get better implemented years before, or that TLR didn't get better a couple of years after and without being a Final Fantasy game.

And I'm surprised you can actually say this:

"I'm sorry if these games don't explain everything to you and hold your hand so you only have to play the game once. When Japanese games start giving you choices and alternate paths, that must be hell for you guys because you can barely handle it when things are left to the imagination."

About XII after playing games like Deus Ex, I mean seriously now.

Though I wont be getting Ogre-whatever because I don't like the tactics genere much, and it being from the same team that made XII doesn't help either.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Agito XIII and Versus XIII leaked gameplay

Jeez BBQ, you're kind of a dick.

He really is.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Agito XIII and Versus XIII leaked gameplay

I'd like to know where you got XII was complicated, or that it's narrative was somehow only for the few wise gamers who could find the subtle hints here and there. It was simply poorly done, it was a chore, period. It's like all those people defending the wards system in XIV trying to spin it off as somehow it being only for the hardcore (masochists maybe.)

Like being able to endure hours upon hours looking through bazaars for a decent piece of gear was epic and a proof of leetness. Laughable, that's what it is.

Dunno anyone that's made such comments about FFXIV. If anything, I think there have just been some support for SE's choice to go with straight barter-and-trade systems rather than make a fantasy world for the Ebay generation. Sometimes doing something different for the sake of being different doesn't always work out, however.

That aside, until you get past weak generalizations, I'm not going to take your opinion seriously. I can sit here and make weak generalizations about any game, just like like you do, but between you and me, who would you say got more out of FFXII and played more? Who would you say

Knowing who makes the game tells you a bit sometimes. You say Warren Spector, Shigeru Miyamoto, Hideo Kojima, Will Wright or Hironobu Sakaguchi and I'm sold, really. Their attachment to a game tends to mean I can expect certain things.

And no, Warren Spector's games are not about hand-holding as you so audaciously claim, but rather, giving players the freedom to approach a game on their own terms. He makes games where there isn't one answer for every problem. There might be two or three other options that you can pursue that get the job done.

And from your comment, I can tell you only played Deus Ex: Invisible War. That puts you on a J9 level of knowledge with the first game. Spector did not direct Invisible War, only produce. The director streamlined too much of DX2, robbing it of the exploration and alternative choices that the first game was kinda reknowned for (and still is). Even so, there were multiple ways to play through the narrative that were more than black/white choices. How many games give you four ways to tackle the narrative? In DX:IW's case thats Evil, Other Evil, neutral and playing both sides against each other. That's a design approach most developers are kinda scared to touch. For many, that's too many scenarios and too complicated.

And how many games give you three options to commandeer a vehicle? Bribery, Brute Force or non-lethal take-downs? You can actually finish either DX game without killing anybody and it was that series that was one of the first to even give you such an option.

If anything, the DX games are among the few that give you credit as an adult that you'll be able to get through the game on your own terms. There's a mech-armored guard in your way. You can use stealth to get past him, use the sewer to go around him, fire a gunshot and get everyone's attention or toss a throwing knife in his one exposed area in the back on the neck (which is no easy trick).

At the very least, when Spector falls short of expectation, he doesn't go down in flames like Peter Molyneux's constant empty promises on his games.

Anyway, if you want to keep looking like you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, feel free to keep on making your weak generalizations.

And if any of that makes me sound like a dick, well, I'm just well past sugarcoating my opinions when people's counterpoints are nothing but vague bullshit. Even Malacite can kind of articulate his issues, even though he's never had a concept of gameplay balance. Gameplay mechanics maybe, but certainly not balance.

[Raydeus]

Re: Agito XIII and Versus XIII leaked gameplay

Way to miss the point of my post, but I guess we are at the stage were you just get angrier and angrier when someone disagrees with you. That's the part where you lose all ability to comprehend other people's post and start throwing insults around to make people back away from the discussion.

After all, we've been here many times before already.

So, take a step back, go get your pills and come back after you've calmed down.

Also, you'll have to accept many players disliked the games and developers you adore so much, and yes, there are players that actually like having their hand hold through the game or having a more cinematic experience. What's the big deal about it?

If you are going to try to belittle everyone who has different tastes from you or people who has a different opinion about games you like then you'll probably overdose on happy pills just to keep up.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Agito XIII and Versus XIII leaked gameplay

Get back on topic. This isn't a "I'm more knowledgeable than you" thread. You want to argue a different point, make a thread for it.

[Raydeus]

Re: Agito XIII and Versus XIII leaked gameplay

I like this trailer.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDJJ5RLJVGI]YouTube - Final Fantasy Versus XIII Extended Trailer HD[/ame]

[jenova_9]

Re: Agito XIII and Versus XIII leaked gameplay

This trailer is great! Far more exciting scenario, gameplay and party members! And there's chocobos, mew!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpfK3FIG-AY]YouTube - Final Fantasy Agito XIII - Tokyo Game Show 2010[/ame]

people are so hyped, there are already cosplayers!
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcpWTVLkX_c&NR=1[/ame]

[Absentia]

Re: Agito XIII and Versus XIII leaked gameplay

Will Wright

Wasn't Spore one of his grand ideas?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Agito XIII and Versus XIII leaked gameplay

Wasn't Spore one of his grand ideas?

Its already getting another spinoff, Darkspore, so apparently that worked out. He always has Sim City and The Sims to fall back on, which is a license to print money as it is.