So... Starcraft 2?

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Again, a statistic means nothing if it can be artificially inflated. This is high-school math.

So, the guy knows how to command his troops? Does that automatically mean he isn't issuing redundant commands to inflate his APM? No. There's more to the game than how many orders you can issue in a minute. If that weren't the case, I could tell the same SCV to mine the same patch of minerals and auto-win.

While it's true that you can inflate that stat for shits & giggles, that doesn't really do anything. Besides, the high APM counts in HD Starcraft's videos are clearly not just for show - these guys are pulling off simultaneous, multi-pronged attacks. The Koreans are especially insane with the level of control they exert over individual units in a battle. You can not fucking watch one of those match ups and tell me APM doesn't matter because it sure as shit does. Which reminds me, it's been a while since HD has done a game with Idra raging over "cheese" XD

[Tickmeoff]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzMhh8zhTiY"]YouTube - Banelings - (Justin Bieber - Baby PARODY) ft HuskyStarcraft / KurtHugoSchneider[/ame]


I don't believe this requires explanation.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Off topic, but much better than the above:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvmIzxO0-n4]YouTube - Heavy Bieber - Baby (feat. Scoutacris)[/ame]

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Both of you DIAF for bringing that douche bag into this, even in parody form.

And while I'm at it, Fuck You Usher.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

While it's true that you can inflate that stat for shits & giggles, that doesn't really do anything. Besides, the high APM counts in HD Starcraft's videos are clearly not just for show - these guys are pulling off simultaneous, multi-pronged attacks. The Koreans are especially insane with the level of control they exert over individual units in a battle. You can not fucking watch one of those match ups and tell me APM doesn't matter because it sure as shit does. Which reminds me, it's been a while since HD has done a game with Idra raging over "cheese" XD

^^^

[Ufgt]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I'm not going to try to convince you anymore because you don't want to be convinced. I'm filing this one under stubborness.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

You've yet to offer a convincing arguement. So far it's been "the pros have higher APM than everybody else so that must be what makes them good".

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

"the pros have higher APM than everybody else and can been putting it to great effect".

FTFY. Seriously you try managing attacks on three different fronts simultaneously. I sure as hell can't. I can start a multi-pronged attack, but I'm not fast enough to consistently deliver individual commands to each freaking unit while doing so. Sounds like you're just butt hurt over your own APM Dak.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

FTFY. Seriously you try managing attacks on three different fronts simultaneously. I sure as hell can't. I can start a multi-pronged attack, but I'm not fast enough to consistently deliver individual commands to each freaking unit while doing so. Sounds like you're just butt hurt over your own APM Dak.

And yet, actions per minute is not a magical number that can easily explain why that person's coordination is so awesome.I can't coordinate awesome attacks. I'm not the greatest SC2 player, easily, but this isn't about me.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

This guy had more than twice as much APM than me, and lost.

Roach Rush - StarCraft 2 Replays - GameReplays.org

Plus, he's platinum and I'm silver.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

APM isn't everything, but it does matter.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQsMPuraQPs]YouTube - foxervsfruitdealer g1[/ame]

[Lmnop]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

APM is useful but it's hard to measure how much it does for you because of the following relationship:

If you have high APM, you are not necessarily a good player.

If you are a good player, you have high(ish) APM.

How high is needed varies. SC2 is actually much more lenient than SC1 in terms of required APM.

If you've heard of Sjow at all (European pro), his APM tends to run quite low. 80-120 as far as I've seen. Still 30 better than I have. Unfortunately, he will never become an "S-ranked" player with that APM. But he is still quite awesome. And it's just made all the sweeter when he knocks out 300 APM players.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Totally agree. I just don't think it's right to outright dismiss it as an indicator of a good player/high skill, because it usually is. It is by no means the be-all end-all benchmark however that most players make it out to be.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I don't want to continue this argument. I understand how higher APM can be utilized by more skilled players, but I was watching my friend play, who I consider a whole lot better than me, and he would issue the same command above five times, every time. I called him on it every single time, but he said he was "making sure they got the command". Craziness.

Anyways, I also noticed he knew all the key shortcuts for building buildings and units, but doesn't use control groups. Whereas I make extensive use of control groups, but don't know anything about the key shortcuts for production. I suppose this is why he's better at macro and I'm better at micro, but would learning those shortcuts up my game a considerable amount? I've also got to stop being anal about how I build my bases. I have the grid turned on, and everything has to be parallel and look nice. It's probably wasting a lot of time.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

but would learning those shortcuts up my game a considerable amount?

Yes, definitely. I'm still getting used to them, but having buildings macrod and knowing exactly which key ques what unit speeds things up considerably if you're quick at jumping hotkeys. It doesn't really do anything during "down time" but when you're trying to manage research, unit production & possibly even multiple battlefronts simultaneously it helps tremendously.


And the only thing I'd be super picky about when it comes to building placement is with regards to the map. That is, certain maps have backdoors, bigger ramps, lots of cliffs etc etc plus some maps you need to worry about units like Reapers, others not so much. Don't stress out on looking organized and stay focused on walling off and trying to hide key tech buildings to deny scouting.

Another trick with building placement I've seen (well two really) is to put a supply depot or pylon by the rocks if you have any at the back of your base. This will usually give you just enough sight to alert you to any backdoor shenanigans. The other tip, the one I still can't quite get the hang of, is placing buildings to obstruct the mineral line. E.g. I've seen a lot of Zerg replays where the player puts either an Evo chamber or their spawning pool near the extractor to cut off any direct route to the drones. This is great for stopping worker raids.

Lastly, and this is yet another new technique I saw used in the campaign and it sometimes applies in MP when cost allows it, is for Terrans to wall off using Planetary Fortresses. It's expensive to do at 650 resources (I think that's the combined cost? correct me if I'm wrong) per Fortress but good luck breaking that down when you've got siege tanks behind them. It only gets even more annoying for ground forces if you've got building armor or high-sec auto-targeting. Nothing like running into a 1500 HP building with 3(+2 with upgrade for total of 5) armor building with a 40 damage cannon.


I hope they start adding some of the campaign stuff with the next expansion for Terrans. It'd be wonderful for example if you could research the friendly fire shells for Siege Tanks and not just siege mode for that 75% ff reduction.