So... Starcraft 2?

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Is there a way to convert replays into watchable videos?

Here's one of mine, it's pretty awesome...


FIERCE STRENGTH OF WILL - StarCraft 2 Replays - GameReplays.org

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I think I'm done with this game. Every aspect of it is poorly thought out, even after the extensive development time it received, which is a luxury better games couldn't afford.

First of all, the ranking and matchmaking systems are completely illogical. Apparently, the game can detect when teams are uneven, and will even display which team is favored, but why wouldn't it just balance the teams to make things fair? It's hard to believe that that's a thought they've never had. Rank is based purely on points, which you only receive when you win. If you lose you lose points. This is a problem when you're playing games with other people on your team, because a loss would be placed squarely on your shoulders regardless of your performance. Even if you, as a single player, play well enough to belong in a higher league you'll never find yourself there unless you're on the winning teams. This becomes even more of a problem when you're kept in a league with poor players while being matched up against teams from higher leagues. Sometimes you're even pitted against arranged teams, who all have their strategies and coordination down pat.

Unit balance and AI is so atrocious, I'm unsure why more people aren't complaining. For Terran and Protoss, there's no point in moving past tier one units. Marines and Stalkers do so well that you can mass enough of them by mid-game to wipe our your opponents who decided to tech by the time they get to what unit they're working towards. Tier one units have the advantage of being massed from the very beginning of the game, and they need a reduction in power to match that. You can even immediately begin upgrading them, for increased effectiveness. This is an issue that makes two-thirds of the multiplayer experience pointless.

Void Rays... why they haven't been nerfed is beyond me. The amount of planning required to defend against them heavily outweighs the amount of planning that goes into using them.

Phoenix... air-to-air anti-air that can lift almost any unit off the ground, effectively turning them into a useless air unit. On top of that, they're cheap and can be built extremely quickly. They're also extremely fast and can fire while moving. Their ability to engage ground units is overpowered for an air unit. The Viking can attack both ground and air, but not at the same time, and the Corrupter is one of the slowest moving anti-air units in the game, granted they have an extremely underutilized ability that works well to turn the tides. It's too easy for a group of Phoenixes to move in, pick up half a ground army, kill them, and move out. They can even pick up siege tanks while in siege mode.

Zerg are so underpowered early in the game that it's laughable. Not only can they not produce a wall, or even contribute to one, but producing units as a defense requires a lot of commitment with resources that could otherwise be spent on upgrading. Zergling can be formidable force when grouped with another player's force of zergling, but they lose their effectiveness quickly. Overall, they're extremely vulnerable until they're able to produce Hydralisks and Mutalisks, but good players will make sure they never get that far.

[Raydeus]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Look at the bright side, at least playing the game didn't fry your video card(s).

[Ufgt]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I have none of the complaints you have.

Matching making with random teams is going to be awful, no matter what league you are in.

Marines are counters by Zealots, Zealots die to marauders, lings counter stalkers, stalkers die to marauders. Honestly, the only problem T1 unit are Marauders, imo.

VRs blow in 1v1, scout it out. Yes, they are a problem in multiplayer, but letting anyone tech in mp will always be problems, whether it be mass mutas, speedlings, MMM, Thors, etc etc etc.

Phoenix's counter zerg pretty hard, but that doesn't mean they are OP. They can only lift as many units as they have phoenixs, so mass anything beats it (lings, MMM). And it's a pretty huge resource commitment for a unit that needs energy to fight ground troops.

I feel zerg are UP, but not as bad as you say. Ling early harass is strong, and that allows you to fast expand, where you will just out macro the other races.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I have none of the complaints you have.

Matching making with random teams is going to be awful, no matter what league you are in.

Marines are counters by Zealots, Zealots die to marauders, lings counter stalkers, stalkers die to marauders. Honestly, the only problem T1 unit are Marauders, imo.

VRs blow in 1v1, scout it out. Yes, they are a problem in multiplayer, but letting anyone tech in mp will always be problems, whether it be mass mutas, speedlings, MMM, Thors, etc etc etc.

Phoenix's counter zerg pretty hard, but that doesn't mean they are OP. They can only lift as many units as they have phoenixs, so mass anything beats it (lings, MMM). And it's a pretty huge resource commitment for a unit that needs energy to fight ground troops.

I feel zerg are UP, but not as bad as you say. Ling early harass is strong, and that allows you to fast expand, where you will just out macro the other races.

And none of this is true from any game I've ever played. Zealots are only useful with charge. Before then, they're entirely useless. As are zerglings, since they're basically in the same boat. They only shine because people typically don't move their economy when being rushed, so it's an easy target. If they move their economy, zergling are useless as well.

[Ufgt]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I don't know what level games you are playing then. =/.

[Lmnop]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I think I'm done with this game. Every aspect of it is poorly thought out, even after the extensive development time it received, which is a luxury better games couldn't afford.

First of all, the ranking and matchmaking systems are completely illogical. Apparently, the game can detect when teams are uneven, and will even display which team is favored, but why wouldn't it just balance the teams to make things fair? It's hard to believe that that's a thought they've never had. Rank is based purely on points, which you only receive when you win. If you lose you lose points. This is a problem when you're playing games with other people on your team, because a loss would be placed squarely on your shoulders regardless of your performance. Even if you, as a single player, play well enough to belong in a higher league you'll never find yourself there unless you're on the winning teams. This becomes even more of a problem when you're kept in a league with poor players while being matched up against teams from higher leagues. Sometimes you're even pitted against arranged teams, who all have their strategies and coordination down pat.

Unit balance and AI is so atrocious, I'm unsure why more people aren't complaining. For Terran and Protoss, there's no point in moving past tier one units. Marines and Stalkers do so well that you can mass enough of them by mid-game to wipe our your opponents who decided to tech by the time they get to what unit they're working towards. Tier one units have the advantage of being massed from the very beginning of the game, and they need a reduction in power to match that. You can even immediately begin upgrading them, for increased effectiveness. This is an issue that makes two-thirds of the multiplayer experience pointless.

Void Rays... why they haven't been nerfed is beyond me. The amount of planning required to defend against them heavily outweighs the amount of planning that goes into using them.

Phoenix... air-to-air anti-air that can lift almost any unit off the ground, effectively turning them into a useless air unit. On top of that, they're cheap and can be built extremely quickly. They're also extremely fast and can fire while moving. Their ability to engage ground units is overpowered for an air unit. The Viking can attack both ground and air, but not at the same time, and the Corrupter is one of the slowest moving anti-air units in the game, granted they have an extremely underutilized ability that works well to turn the tides. It's too easy for a group of Phoenixes to move in, pick up half a ground army, kill them, and move out. They can even pick up siege tanks while in siege mode.

Zerg are so underpowered early in the game that it's laughable. Not only can they not produce a wall, or even contribute to one, but producing units as a defense requires a lot of commitment with resources that could otherwise be spent on upgrading. Zergling can be formidable force when grouped with another player's force of zergling, but they lose their effectiveness quickly. Overall, they're extremely vulnerable until they're able to produce Hydralisks and Mutalisks, but good players will make sure they never get that far.

I disagree with all of your points (at least on game balance).

Take that.

I agree the matchmaking system kinda sucks. I think the biggest problem I have with it is that it's afraid to let me sit for more than 30 seconds w/out a fight. I wish I could tell it to wait up to 3 minutes if a better-matched opponent comes along (with a longer countdown clock to help me not get caught off guard). I'd also like it to try for racial parity. If my last 7 games have consisted of 5 toss and 2 terran, find me a Z!

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

One of the problems with 4v4 is that there are so few people looking for matches that it'll pull people from vastly different leagues, divisons, skill levels, and team compositions. I know it's to keep the downtime short, but it's annoying.

Have you never seen somebody stick with only Stalkers? I do it all the time, and it works like a charm as long as the rest of my team can pull their own weight. By the time the enemy has built a few Void Rays, Battlecruisers, Carriers, Thors, or whatever else, I've already amassed a large army of Stalkers, simply because I had access to them sooner. I've also been upgrading both their weapons and armor, saving shields for last. The best part of these upgrades that they apply to all ground units, meaning I can easily transition to other ground units if need be.

Marines are also an awesome unit to stick with, because they attack quickly and can be healed by Medivacs. Their biggest threat are Collossi, which go down quickly, Banelings, which can easily be killed before reaching the Marines, and Ultralisks, which pose as much a threat as Collossi. All of these have the potential to really cause trouble for a bioball of Marines, but with stim and a bunch of upgrades they're pretty much useless. Oh, High Templars really fuck marines up. Moreso than Collossi, in my opinion, because you can build six or so HTs and immediately psionic storm a group of Marines to death before they have a chance to defend themselves.

[Lmnop]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I really should stay out of this thread until I have more multi vs multi experience. I'm pretty much exclusively 1v1, and it's pretty obvious the game was balanced, first and foremost, around the 1v1 experience.

[Aeni]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

2010 GSL Open Season1 IdrA vs 허준과침제니스 [Round of 64 match 1] - GOMtv.net

omgomgomgomomgomgomg

With Blizzard CEO presiding over the tournament, music bands and over 100 million won in prizes, this has to be the biggest tournament of ANY esports in history.

[Lmnop]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Btw, Dak, there's some news on battlenet about intentions to fix the matchmaking system. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if today's server-side maintenance was just that. They specifically cited team matchups as getting reworked. In addition to working on their general logic, they're making placement matches have a higher impact on your rank (easier to place in higher leagues if you win enough). Basically, it's currently in a cycle where everyone is low ranked despite skill level due to always being matched against others who are much tougher than their rank implies, because they placed just as well as the inferior team. It's a start, and just thought I'd mention it.

[Aeni]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Btw, Dak, there's some news on battlenet about intentions to fix the matchmaking system. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if today's server-side maintenance was just that. They specifically cited team matchups as getting reworked. In addition to working on their general logic, they're making placement matches have a higher impact on your rank (easier to place in higher leagues if you win enough). Basically, it's currently in a cycle where everyone is low ranked despite skill level due to always being matched against others who are much tougher than their rank implies, because they placed just as well as the inferior team. It's a start, and just thought I'd mention it.

This is much welcomed news, thanks for sharing it. It won't stop the abusive cheese that's going on right now (especially with terran and protoss players) but hopefully the matchmaking will be more reasonable. I've got friends who gave up in disgust as there's some invisible wall between platinum and diamond populated by cheesey Koreans (or we suspect) preventing people from either moving up (or even down!)

---------- Post added at 10:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 PM ----------

I'm not sure if this guy is serious or not (sounds like he is) but apparently he has done the worker rush (anyone remember that epic korean tournament from the first starcraft?) strategy and stayed in the bronze league for 6,000+ games and won 50% of it. Just using this one strat.

Scary.

[Lmnop]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

If it's the same guy I heard about, he was going for those ridiculous achievements. Whenever he got matched against terran, he saw SCV health+5 as a good reason to give up and quit. Losing every game vs Terran kept him in bronze league, so it's not like he plowed his way through the ranks with this strat.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Pennoyer sandbagged his way down to the bronze league where he could mass wins against new players for the Dark Voice profile picture. A lot of others will join and immediately leave games repeatedly, hoping some of their teams will win without them and that win will reflect on their record. This update hasn't changed anything.

[Lmnop]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

You say that like random teaming is supposed to be fun. I can't imagine someone who takes Starcraft seriously wanting that to be the feature Blizzard attempts to revolve the game around.