So... Starcraft 2?

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

While sixteen gates seems like a lot, I'm finding two to definitely be not enough. Perhaps in some situations it may suffice, but when shit hits the fan you need the ability to call on more than two Stalkers at a time, or whatever you need. I still haven't built anything beyond them from a Gateway.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

4 gate is the norm.

Been replaying the original SC lately and I gotta say, why the hell are the Protoss only just now whipping out the warp gate tech?!

[MrMageo]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

4 Gate is hardly the norm. It is popular but so is 2 gate robo, and fast tech VRAY/Carrier. Thats like saying Terran Always go Mech and Zerg always go Hydra/Roach.

4 Gate is decent but it can be quite easily destroyed by a fast marauder group (2-3) + rines. or a ling rush.

Just because you have seen a few youtube video of pros using it, doesn't mean it is popular. (See the Reaper discussion a few pages back). TBH 2gate robo seems more popular (against terran) since it allows for a faster Immortal (which is great against rauders.) An observer to scout the terran, or expanding further to Colosus to take on mass marines.

Against Zerg it is the popular choice because most Zerg fail at early agression. instead they sit back and expand, allowing the toss to get 4 gates functioning. This makes it fairly difficult to overcome. But as a Zerg v Toss you can safely scout it. If you see a cyber core go down before a second gateway chances are they are going for some type of 2 gate or a fast VRAY. If you see a second gateway drop before a Cyber than chances are you are looking at a 4 gate in which case your initial 10 or so lings will probably be able to win the game.

But if you want to talk popularity play the damn game, Ive seen more toss go with VRAY/Carrier than 4 gate. Ive seen more 2 gate Robo than 4 gate. 4 gate is far from super popular, stop trying to make thins what they are not because you have seen a couple broadcasts on HD or Husky.

Hell by that notion, Terrans popular build is fast BC cuz I saw TLO do it a few times, and Zerg seems to be mass mutas againt Thors cuz Idra does it.

"insert facepalm here"

[Taskmage]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

You know, just because you see more 2 gate and fast tech in your league and division doesn't mean that 4 gate isn't "the norm" in Malacite's sphere of play. You're assuming a lot by saying that if someone's perceptions and experiences don't match yours they're pulling it out of their ass.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Just watched one of the most epic games ever... 4-part game PvZ that ended in the Zerg uy winning by sneaking in an extractor and the Protos player's base just as he took down the last of the zerg's buildings...

They had been at a stalemate for over an hour with 1 corrupter, 1 drone and 1 speedling vs 1 zealot. Neither of them had a nexus/hatchery up and barely any minerals (25 to 56 or something like that?) it was just so ridiculous...

[Taskmage]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I just finished watching that one too. Hilarious. You spoiled the ending though.

[MrMageo]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

You know, just because you see more 2 gate and fast tech in your league and division doesn't mean that 4 gate isn't "the norm" in Malacite's sphere of play. You're assuming a lot by saying that if someone's perceptions and experiences don't match yours they're pulling it out of their ass.

He does not even play that is the thing. He has seen a few matches casted on youtube and assumes it is the big thing. Just like he assumes cuz he saw reapers do good in a coupl vids that they are super awesome units. Fact is, 4 gate is just as popular as any of the other builds, it is not "THE NORM".

I have watched a lot of the same vids as he has and ive seen just as many 2 gate robo's as 4 gates. It is not the norm, it is just one of the more popular builds, especially against the zerg. So not to be rude or aything taskmage, climb back under your rock.

[Taskmage]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I love "Not to be rude, but here's something rude." Just saying.

[MrMageo]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

cool story bro.

[Lmnop]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

You know, just because you see more 2 gate and fast tech in your league and division doesn't mean that 4 gate isn't "the norm" in Malacite's sphere of play. You're assuming a lot by saying that if someone's perceptions and experiences don't match yours they're pulling it out of their ass.

Ehh. We prowl SC2 strategy forums all day, we have tons of websites where people are always uploading replays, and we're free to watch what our opponents do in every game afterwards. "The Norm" is definitely hard to pin down, but from the 5 times I've been placed in different leagues and different divisions, I've found people playing the same way 5 times.

And yeah. Mal's assessments of "the norm" is kind of like me hearing about Taskmage eating eggs and assuming you eat eggs every day.

(Sorry Mal)

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

High level play strats > everything else.

The proof is in the pudding.

[MrMageo]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

High level play strats > everything else.

The proof is in the pudding.

Give me a break. The strats are the same through all the leagues, High level players are just better at execution and transition. I have seen many people go muta + ling like Idra, or mass Roach to Ultra like Idra, does that that mean they should be pro's too, because they used popular builds?. I use TLO's fast BC build on occasion does that mean I can be a pro too, because I can execute a build a pro uses.

A 6 pool is still a 6 pool regardless if a pro uses it or a noob uses it, a Cannon rush is still a cannon rush, mass mech, 4 gate, etc etc are all the same builds no matter what level you play at.

You don't know what you are taking about, (again) so just give it up.

Playing the game > Watching a couple vids online

The proof is in the pudding.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I've been rocking the RTS scene since I was 10, don't give me lip you little nub.

The same strategies are never applied at every level. Pro's use different tactics that's a fact and of course there's a huge difference in execution.
The biggest difference is how good your macro and micro are in high level play and your ability to adapt. That's something playing Halo Wars for the last year has
really drilled into me; There are so many idiots on that game, but the Pros are really, really freaking good to point of being scary.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I've been rocking the RTS scene since I was 10, don't give me lip you little nub.

The same strategies are never applied at every level. Pro's use different tactics that's a fact and of course there's a huge difference in execution.
The biggest difference is how good your macro and micro are in high level play and your ability to adapt. That's something playing Halo Wars for the last year has
really drilled into me; There are so many idiots on that game, but the Pros are really, really freaking good to point of being scary.

Buy the game already, damn. Veteran status in the genre doesn't mean you know jack about the game.

All the strategies are the same, no matter what league you're in. Sure, people may not use certain strategies in the bronze league that they use in the daimond, but they're still the same.

[Lmnop]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I hate to go all Ad Hominem but you really don't understand what Mageo's saying, Mal. Fact is, people were going 3 gate and then grabbing an expo in Beta when I was in Copper League, when I was in Bronze, when I was in Silver, and when I was in Gold. Why? Pros use it, and Day 9 says it's one of the most stable protoss opening you can get. I listen to Day 9, because he was one of the top SC1 players and his focus is on helping lower level players.

Of course stuff changes in-game. Example: A lower level player going for High Templar and psi storm will build less HTs than a higher level player. Why? His mechanics are not strong enough to support units whose cost-effective is entirely dependent on timely usage. He needs more troops who have solid performance which require very little micro. High level players will get away with building fewer stalkers in favor of more HTs because they're more likely to get the full bang for their buck. HOWEVER, they both used a 3 gate opening with a fast Twilight Council for Charge upgrade while getting the economy for Templar tech. Same game plan, different ways of running the army.

Really, Mal. If you're an RTS vet, you should have a good handle on strategy vs tactics. And you should realized all levels of play have the same strategy but differ their tactics.

ADDENDUM: On the other hand, it's worth pointing out that at lower levels of play, there are more strats in use simply because you can get away with crappier strats. This doesn't change what I stated above for the core, good strats.