So... Starcraft 2?

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Can't take the constant split decisions?

I look at an RTS like a much more complicated game of Tetris, just with more than one player :D

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I hate how siege tanks are the hard counter for every single other ground unit in the game. Granted, they're particularly vulnerable from attacks from the air, but so are Marauders and they're not exactly a hard counter for anything, except maybe zerglings. I was Zerg, and going hydras, and siege tanks completely ruined my attack. Granted, my opponent had a very effective set-up. The only entrance to their bases was surrounded with siege tanks on cliffs and at the back of the entrance, with an observer clearing the fog of war for them.

[MrMageo]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Ya tanks are pretty strong. But against some units the are very weak in siege mode. Immortals and Roaches for example. They take less damage from a tank in siege mode. If you can get them in close to draw fire or force them to unsiege then move the rest of your force in. This is much easier for roaches to do, since they can burrow and move.

I find terran has just a great mix of units. People would say they are OP but I think the composition is just that good. Toss also have a decent grouping zealots and stalkers work well with everything just like rines and rauders. Zerg however fall behind in composition, however they make it up with sheer blobability. Since they can rebuild units so fast they can whittle the other two down.

Personally I love early push with 5-6 marines, 3-4 rauders and 2 tanks with either a raven and a medivac, or just a raven. Lets me post up just about anywhere on the map and hold out until I get my final force together.

The thing about tanks is early on the are costly, if you scout an early factory with tech you can assume they are going tanks, if they are then you can get a couple mutas, or phoenixes to blow them up.

Which is the only draw back to terran. They have such a large diversity, and a mix unit comp gives you the best resaults the only thing is you have a slightly delayed force to push with by comparison.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Phoenix are air-to-air, right?

[Aeni]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Phoenix are air-to-air, right?

They have an ability to lift ground units to the air and destroy them that way, but yes, they are primarily AA units, much like Banshees are strictly AG units (Air to Ground)

So I skimmed some of the lively discussion and seems to be some heated words surrounding Reapers. Reapers are invaluable for harassment and distraction. For example, if you can build up a nice sizeable force of at least 8 reapers and keep them somewhere in the back of your opponent's base and them move your army out, you could possibly buy your army enough time by throwing in the reapers up to the mineral lines thus forcing your opponent to have to tear his frontline defense and focus his attention there. Hit and run, guerilla tactics, and then the army can go storming in the front. You can do this with a Thor-Dropship move as well and also Tank-Dropship across a ravine for other types of harassment. The goal here is to cause distraction and split your opponents attention into 3 parts - economy, harassment and frontline defense. You have an edge through FOW unless you aren't very good a multitasking. Remember, they can do that to you, too, so static defenses (or investing too heavily) means less mobility which opens yourself up to vulnerabilities all along your perimeters as well as your expansion.

For 2v2+ types of scenario, choke points are not in your base, but towards the center of the map. Those of you who are veterans of War Song Gulch BG (WoW PvP) know of the importance of controlling midfield. In SC2, this concept is no different and thus require tremendous coodination and communication in order to be successful. I find random teams to be difficult to engage in this manner primarily due to the lack of coordination, planning and communication.

I play primarily as 'Toss and usually go with a 2 gate push on Zeals against Zergs (force them to put out a spawning pool ahead of a 2nd hatch which throws their game off) and usually go for a more standard 6 gate/2 robo heavy ground force against Terrans and other' Toss. If you can't cheese me to death in the first 7-8 minutes then it's usually GG when an 80 supply army comes for milk and honey at your doorstep with 40 supplies worth strewing out every 80-90sec.

[MrMageo]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

They are but Graviton beam is awesome. 3-4 Phoenixes are sweet, 1 picks up ground units the others blast. On full energy the can each pick up 3-4 units ( i think it is 4). So if you happen across some tanks or what not just pick them up. Even if you can't kill them they still won't act and when your army gets under you phoenixes they will be in the perfect spot to smash tanks or thors or any thing.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I believe so, however there's a neat little trick you can use to lift units up into the air and "snipe" them with a Void Ray. It's funny as hell to run up to a Zerg base and just YOINK on the Queen lmao.


Also, IIRC, Marauders are hard counters for Armored units as they deal +10 damage to them. Zerglings will actually eat them alive if they aren't stimmed, and God help you against Banelings with hooks. I suppose it does seem silly from a variety stand point, but really, they're freaking tanks. I would certainly hope that they own most other ground units in general.


One thing I've noticed in the Youtube videos of high level play is hardly anyone makes use of the Roaches' ability to move while burrowed... I'm sure there's gotta be a tonne of potential for abuse on mineral lines with that perk. Or can they only move where you have a line of sight? If so then that's pretty stupid...

I've yet to see anyone get that Spread attack for the BC's either. I mean, I've seen some videos where BC's got shot down by focus fire from hordes of weaklings... which is precisely why Blizzard gave them that new spell isn't it? To mow down hordes? Yet no one ever uses it...

[Aeni]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

One thing I've noticed in the Youtube videos of high level play is hardly anyone makes use of the Roaches' ability to move while burrowed... I'm sure there's gotta be a tonne of potential for abuse on mineral lines with that perk. Or can they only move where you have a line of sight? If so then that's pretty stupid...

It was good back when you could get 2 roaches for 1 unit of supply ... because mass burrowing makes much more sense. Since the supply cost changes, roaches are more strategic, on par with Marauders, since they do bonus damage to structures and high armor units. Remember, burrowing is the same as cloaking, so you'll be revealed with scans/observers. Roaches are also considered tanks. I think as far as ground units are concerned, Immortals, Roaches and Marauders are on par in their survivability. If you look at it in that light, Marauders will have the upper hand in sheer numbers, stimpack and their ability to slow units. With medivacs, they're a formidble and affordable offensive and defensive asset.

Vikings en masse, brood lords and phoenixes are anti-BC and because of the slow speed of the BCs, they're rendered useless besides being a "meat shield" for your combined arms. Having lots of SCVs help with the investment costs, but they're also prone to ground splash damage and can also be costly in terms of supply/resource gathering potential. However, if you back up your BCs with a couple of Thors, they can provide a potent punch through enemy lines.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

How would Immortals be on the same level as Roaches and Marauders? They take only ten points of damage from all sources.

Burrow is best used with Banelings. You can unburrow at just the right moment and destroy an entire army.

[Aeni]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I hate how siege tanks are the hard counter for every single other ground unit in the game. Granted, they're particularly vulnerable from attacks from the air, but so are Marauders and they're not exactly a hard counter for anything, except maybe zerglings. I was Zerg, and going hydras, and siege tanks completely ruined my attack. Granted, my opponent had a very effective set-up. The only entrance to their bases was surrounded with siege tanks on cliffs and at the back of the entrance, with an observer clearing the fog of war for them.

Somehow I missed this, so I'll try to respond.

First of all Hydralisks are light armored units. This is their tradeoff for having the ability to hit both ground and air units from a distance. They just have a bit more health than marines (it's a tradeoff for Terrans having medivacs) This means that they are susceptible to high damage and splash damage. To resolve this issue, you have tanks in front of them. Tanks are called roaches and you'd want a dozen of them to keep marauders and marines off your hydras and provide a buffer against seige tanks. Use lings with speed upgrades to soften up marauders. Roaches can destroy seige tanks in quick order and is a must for any ground offensive.

---------- Post added at 01:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 PM ----------

How would Immortals be on the same level as Roaches and Marauders? They take only ten points of damage from all sources.

Burrow is best used with Banelings. You can unburrow at just the right moment and destroy an entire army.

The burrow comment was in regards to roaches ability to "tunnel". Immortals are susceptible to en masse small units, like lings, marines and zeals.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

How would Immortals be on the same level as Roaches and Marauders? They take only ten points of damage from all sources.

You just answered your own question. Immortals can charge clean through a line of siege tanks since they'll only take 10 damage max per shelling. Roaches & Marauders however will get wiped out.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

You just answered your own question. Immortals can charge clean through a line of siege tanks since they'll only take 10 damage max per shelling. Roaches & Marauders however will get wiped out.

Uh, ok? I feel like you're prompting me to ask that question again.

[Aeni]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

You just answered your own question. Immortals can charge clean through a line of siege tanks since they'll only take 10 damage max per shelling. Roaches & Marauders however will get wiped out.

Roaches and Marauders are the only basic units that can actually absorb the Seige tank AOE (Roaches can burrow and regenerate out of LOS while Marauders can stand up with a medivac). They also hit HARD so the seige tanks would melt quickly. You can cut a quick swath through a few tanks with a dozen of either units. The key here is to swarm around the tanks in close range so that they cannot attack you in seige mode (right click the units to a spot right next to the tank). Immortals also seem to hit decently hard against the tanks as well. Tanks are considered high damage** and high armor, which is probably the reason why they are perceived as "OP" by some players. However, in seige mode**, which is how they get their high damage, they have a very slow attack speed and thus have their own weakness that can be exploited. Tanks are best used in conjunction with either a barrier (to keep the baddies at minimum range) or other units (i.e., marauders) in front of them. Otherwise, they are pretty exposed given the right units you attack them with.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Unfortunately, the unit AI in this game is terrible. Some commands just aren't followed 100%. I've notice that, while attacking buildings, some will attack while others will run off and do something else. It makes hitting pylons difficult when I'm trying to wrap zealots or zergling around the entire thing. Units will also most likely not walk directly up to siege tanks, even if you click there multiple times. They seem to prefer to stay in their firing range.

Mutalisks are the worst. You'll give them an action, and they'll move around a little bit or spread out, or something else that's not what you told them to do. If you're attacking other units that second lost is enough to turn the battle.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

The AI seems pretty solid to me.

Was watching a game of TheLittleOne vs Skelow or something like that... those tanks were shooting pretty damn fast if you ask me. And wow Vikings are awesome!