So... Starcraft 2?

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Not in my experience, but I upgrade my Void Rays.

The Void Ray will only win if it's already got it's beam charged up. If you can disrupt this (or just stim) it's going down.

Like Lmnop said, they are cost-effective units and can be surprisingly devastating even late game. It's all in how you use 'em.

[MrMageo]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

While it all looks good on paper, stim will ensure I get in range to get several of those colosus down, and EMP will only help matters. Vikings will clean up left over Colosus.

VS a Colosi,Stalker,HT army id field very few marines, if any. Rauders will chew up all those units with stim + EMP on shields. Bring the vikings for cleanup + extra ground units. Would be a close fight but micro'd i think T would win 70% of the time.

Now if you went with some VRays in their too it would probably b awhole different game, that id prolly lose.

[Aeni]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

While it all looks good on paper, stim will ensure I get in range to get several of those colosus down, and EMP will only help matters. Vikings will clean up left over Colosus.

Stimming will make them die faster in a psi storm field Mageo ... and you have to move your marines through that cloud in order for you to kill my colossi which it out of your range. Since Psi Storms don't do more damage from overlapping, I just need to put two clouds down over your marines and then feed back your medivacs and ravens. After that, it's just a slugfest when the numbers even out.

You can still win but do it in early game ... you do not want to wait for a Toss player to pump out HTs and have a well rounded army because you will lose to Toss, EMP or no. Ball marines are a liability in early game so you go marauders if you see Toss go gateway heavy (4-6) After that you could go BCs or w/e you feel like as you keep Toss from building out of his primary base and you go and seize all the resources with your flying buildings. EZ PZ

[MrMageo]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Actually Stimming makes them get through the storm or away from the storm quicker. which means they will take less damage. Should I be using marines at all against that comp, I may lose a bunch, but my marauders will come through in the yellow and kill your very expensive colosi very quickly, chances of you being able to hit my medivacs without entering EMP range is long shot.

Marauder > Colosi + Stalker
Viking > colosi
Ghost > HT
HT + Stalker > Marine
Stalker = Viking
HT = Marauder

In the end I will walk away simply do to the fact I have more hard counters to your army. Your storms would have to be bang on and in a place I couldn't quickly move from. Once you lose your Colosi, then your range advantage is toast and it is just clean up.

Although to be fair It would never get that far to begin with, Id just fast tec a BC and end the game early like i do against all toss who go 2 gate robo.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

The Void Ray will only win if it's already got it's beam charged up. If you can disrupt this (or just stim) it's going down.

Like Lmnop said, they are cost-effective units and can be surprisingly devastating even late game. It's all in how you use 'em.

PLAY THE GAME

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Dude chill out and stfu.

I've seen them enough on HD Starcraft's channel to get a good feel for how they work, and I've seen them get eaten alive by other units while that beam is charging. That's why I specifically stated if their beam is charged because their attack is pretty weak when it's just starting up.

One marine probably wouldn't do too much damage to it without stim but if we're talking equal numbers of each, well, stim will make short work of 'em outside of some unlikely hypothetical where all the rays already have their beams charged to maximum damage.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Dude chill out and stfu.

I've seen them enough on HD Starcraft's channel to get a good feel for how they work, and I've seen them get eaten alive by other units while that beam is charging. That's why I specifically stated if their beam is charged because their attack is pretty weak when it's just starting up.

One marine probably wouldn't do too much damage to it without stim but if we're talking equal numbers of each, well, stim will make short work of 'em outside of some unlikely hypothetical where all the rays already have their beams charged to maximum damage.

While theories are awesome and all, it's only in practice that you know what's actually going on. You've had zero practice.

[MrMageo]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

It all depends on the number of void rays tbh. I find that if that number gets up to 7-8 that my marines really start to melt. Not only that I need 30-40 marines just to fight back. While it is possible to kill mass vrays (uncharged) it just gets to a point where you can't handle them realistically. Especially against someone with good micro.

Not only that but forcing me to mass marines to stop Vrays, means I am not producing units to counter his other forces, this means stalkers and lots, unchecked. In which case I now have to choose between marauders to fend off them or marines to fend off void rays.

Now there is a big difference that comes from battle location as well. Should we fight near any stuructures (ie in my base or his) the P player can charge off nearby buildings and just steam roll my marines. However if I intercept in an open field my win % goes up. Unfortunately the Vray is more mobile, and can just fly off to my base, forcing me to relinquish map control to defend it.

Which leads back to the issue of having to go marine heavy to stop this, and leaving ground combat open to the toss to bring in stalkers or lots.

Ideally this wouldn't happen but Ive been in several games with proxy starpots, and then when 7 vrays and some carriers come knocking, I am usually boned.

[Aeni]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Actually Stimming makes them get through the storm or away from the storm quicker. which means they will take less damage. Should I be using marines at all against that comp, I may lose a bunch, but my marauders will come through in the yellow and kill your very expensive colosi very quickly, chances of you being able to hit my medivacs without entering EMP range is long shot.

Marauder > Colosi + Stalker
Viking > colosi
Ghost > HT
HT + Stalker > Marine
Stalker = Viking
HT = Marauder

In the end I will walk away simply do to the fact I have more hard counters to your army. Your storms would have to be bang on and in a place I couldn't quickly move from. Once you lose your Colosi, then your range advantage is toast and it is just clean up.

Although to be fair It would never get that far to begin with, Id just fast tec a BC and end the game early like i do against all toss who go 2 gate robo.

That's the whole purpose of the clouds, silly. It's to either kill you or get you out of range (because that's what you will do unless you're suicidal) Again, Colossi has range against this with the only exception being the Marauders.

Here's the thing most Terrans have never faced against a good Toss player.

-Guardian Shields (They help a lot with EMP)

-Force Fields (Use it to break up the ball into smaller groups and squeeze them out of position)

-Feedback has a long range - go watch WhiteRa vs Silver matches. Unless you are micro managing those Medivacs (who will fly directly over your injured front line units)

-5-8x Colossi w/ Thermal Lance ... not going air

-20+ Blink Stalkers, Blinking away dying units to the back

-Zealots with speed upgrade, at least a dozen or more.

-I'll hide 4 Immortals in the back and bring them forward after you take down my zealots to be back up tanks and avoid EMP. Gonna FF your Ghosts.

-I always have 2 observers with the army.

I've also started to ball up 10 dispensable probes and send them ahead. Works wonders when you're not actively managing all of your army and the various units and each one of them will be out of position. I have very little to micro due to not having to worry about so many more other abilities.

---------- Post added at 12:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 PM ----------

Ideally this wouldn't happen but Ive been in several games with proxy starpots, and then when 7 vrays and some carriers come knocking, I am usually boned.

If they are going VRays they'll need to tech up for air to make it worthwhile (too many kids are like, "OMG VRAYS ARE OP I'M GONNA MAKE A TON" Which means no ground attack force to even worry about. Go put out a lot of Vikings (Reactor core and cheap) and get your 1 marauder: 2 marine army and keep them from expanding. You cannot go VRays en masse without 4 gas assimalators, because @200 gas a pop it's not a feasible early game scenario.

One last comment ... a good friend of mine said the benchmark for terrans is 50 units in 8 minutes. You need to get to this point to have early game victories. The longer you drag out, the more brutal it gets and then the games are too annoyingly long. I've thrown matches where I know it's just going nowhere against turtling terrans and all we're doing is trading bases and trying to drain the whole map of resources. Some people like these epic 2 hour long matches but not me. I rather have things settle in under 30 minutes, preferably under 20.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

This game would be a lot better if the maps weren't dumb as shit.

Also, Windows 7 fucking sucks. Every time I change a fan it makes me reinstall SC2 all over. What the fuck is that shit???

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I've also started to ball up 10 dispensable probes and send them ahead. Works wonders when you're not actively managing all of your army and the various units and each one of them will be out of position. I have very little to micro due to not having to worry about so many more other abilities.

10 dispensable workers? What the hell are you doing that you have that many idle workers?

---------- Post added at 04:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:46 PM ----------

Also, Windows 7 fucking sucks. Every time I change a fan it makes me reinstall SC2 all over. What the fuck is that shit???

o.O the crap?

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

10 dispensable workers? What the hell are you doing that you have that many idle workers?

---------- Post added at 04:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:46 PM ----------



o.O the crap?

Sometimes expanding isn't an option and you don't need your workers. They're good for something.

Also, I know right? What the fuck is wrong with Windows 7? It also tries to tell me I'm not running a genuine copy of Windows and have to call a number and spend 20 minutes relaying numbers.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

wow....


I use Vista Home Premium. I'm skipping 7 until their next full OS is out.

[Ufgt]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I have nothing wrong with my windows 7. It's great.

EDIT: Ya'll should add me. Ufgt.174

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Void Rays need to be nerfed.