Discussion about breaking NDAs

[Durahansolo]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

I was taking part in the APB beta over the weekend, the NDA for that made no mention of not being able to disclose that you are a tester on it.

;_; was it fun? I was looking at some gameplay trailers the about two weeks ago, and the amount of customization had me interested in playing.

Back on topic, SE asked BG to take down some of their leaked things that had been posted on the site. However, there are still alpha videos being hosted on a video site. I wonder why haven't they been found and taken down yet.

[Cryxen]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

Because they are only genuinely interested in information going mainstream.

Everything i've seen points to this so i'll believe it until proven otherwise.


Public beta, open to the public at selection. In the instance i spoke of context was the obvious answer over pedantic definition.

[Pwnagraphic]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

Everything leaked went mainstream due to SE, lol. Soon as this stuff got leaked, it was in an Famitsu interview.

[Ziero]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

Pooky was banned so it didn't go mainstream.

It is a public beta, it's not an OPEN beta, SE knew there would be leaks with a public beta. They just don't want it to go mainstream!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you dense by merit of being stupid? Or are you a magnificent breakthrough in the study of metallurgy?

Pooky was banned because the stream was "mainstream"(whatever the hell that means). Because it was open to public viewing and anyone could see it, a lot of people who wanted to enforce the NDA reported it and eventually Pooky got nuked. The link to the stream was only posted on gaming sites for people interested in FFXIV, but that means a LOT of people could see it. If it was a private stream to only a few choice people, less people would have known about it, SE wouldn't have been told and Pooky wouldn't have been banned.

See, that's the difference between SE stopping a leak or not, not the size of the leak, but how many people report it and whether or not they can find it. Pooky most certainly wasn't the only one streaming video of the game, he/she was just the most popular to do it that day since he/she seems to have fans at BG. Lesser known streams got off scott free, not because SE doesn't care about them, but because they went unreported. I mean, SE has been trying their best to stop sites that leaked out the Alpha manual, getting BG and FFXIVcore, two of the bigger fansites for FFXIV currently out there to take it down when it was posted, yet didn't even touch the one that was posted on this site, simply because no one seemed to report it (or even read it for that matter). In the end, the difference between what NDA leak gets plugged and what doesn't isn't the size or type of leak, it's whether or not people point it out to SE. Since so few people report pics or text leaks, SE doesn't bother with them, simply because for the most part they don't even know they're there. But there's entire pages in BG's alpha topic where simple images were taken down because SE saw them and asked to have them removed.

Also, this stage of testing is the PRIVATE (invitation only testing allowed by only a select few players) ALPHA (the stage of the game where it looks and plays at it's worst). There is nothing public about it. To gain access to it you have to sign up for a chance to be choose by agreeing to a specific NDA contract, then you have to be hand picked (at seemingly random) by SE, at which point you are given limited access to an unfinished game where your main purpose is to find and report all issues you come across as opposed to actually playing the game normally. The PRIVATE ALPHA stage of testing is much different then the PUBLIC BETA stage of testing.

For someone who seems to enjoy insulting others for being "dense" and "idiots" you sure do seem to have a hard time understanding a simple concept like that.

[Kafeen]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

;_; was it fun? I was looking at some gameplay trailers the about two weeks ago, and the amount of customization had me interested in playing.

The customisation in it is really impressive. After playing with the character editor in that FFXIV has got quite alot to live up to, and that was before even getting to things like customising clothes and vehicles.

I wasn't in the game for too long due to some issues with server stability. Hopfully by release all that will be sorted. I'm hopeing for another testing period coming up soon so I can try it a little more, my group only got 4 hours on Sunday but I ended up only playing for about 30 minutes after speding an hour and a half trying to log in. There was over 10,000 people online on the dev forums so it was kinda busy.

[Cryxen]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

I never said that Pooky's stream didn't deserve to be banned.


I said that it wasn't necessarily bad, it was just a bad precedent for more streams and the footage becoming widespread.


I'll repeat myself a third time for you Ziero because you're clearly special.

People from the FUCKING PUBLIC (frustration much?), not SE are testing the game. I didn't say that it was available publicly, i said that it was being tested by the public.

This means SE knew there would be leaks, thus made an NDA. The NDA is there not to prevent all leaks (because SE knew they couldn't) it's there to give SE the ability to stop saturated leaks, like Pooky's broadcast.

You're as sharp as a marble.

[Ziero]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

I never said that Pooky's stream didn't deserve to be banned.

I don't think anyone said you did, I sure as hell know I didn't. But thanks for arguing against things that weren't said?

p.s. there was still a dozen+ other live streams of the game available at the time. If that's not considered "mainstream" I don't know what is.

Because they are only genuinely interested in information going mainstream.

Everything i've seen points to this so i'll believe it until proven otherwise.

While the NDA exists to prevent leaks of the game from going public, SE makes no distinction between a leaking staying on fan sites or going "mainstream"(which is a term you love to throw around but really has nothing to do with anything). Any and all leaks, including simple pictures (WHICH SE HAS TAKEN DOWN MANY TIMES ALREADY) can and will be nuked by the NDA, regardless of how "mainstream"(whatever the hell that means) they are. We all know why the NDA is in place, and no one's really arguing against it. However, you seem to feel "leaking for the fans" does "absolutely no harm", while it was in fact many of the fans who were complaining about how bad the game looks from Alpha shots. These are people who are regulars to FFXI sites, played XI for years and have eagerly been awaiting information about XIV who still are too dim to realize what it means to see an Alpha version of the game.

Long story short, SE doesn't care about whether or not a leak goes "mainstream", they want to stop all possible leaks from coming out. Period. Whether it be a simple screenshot or a full blown live streaming video, any kind of NDA leak is something that SE is going to want to stop. The only difference between what gets taken down and what doesn't isn't how popular or "mainstream" the leak is, it's whether or not people have reported it. The larger leaks get reported more often so they go down faster, the smaller leaks don't get reported at all so they stick around. Again, SE has repeatedly taken down the Alpha Manual that got posted on numerous fan sites, including BG and FFXIVcore hours after they were posted, since people reported them. Yet it stuck around on this very site for a week because apparently no one saw it (the best place to hide something is in spoilers it seems).

Despite your beliefs, and no matter how hard you stamp your feet and try to insult others who point out that you're wrong, SE doesn't make a difference between "fan site" leaks or "mainstream" leaks, SE wants to stop any and all leaks regardless of size. Seeing as you clearly have trouble understanding a simple concept like that, maybe you should just stop posting.

[Ufgt]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

Actually, I think NDA leaks are pretty close to drug trafficking. SE, instead of going after all the small fries out there, will only be bothered to tackle the big fish. Pooky's stream just happened to be a big fish.

Kinda like how the government won't really audit an individual's taxes, but will go after corporate taxes (at least in Canada... I don't know about the IRS lol).

So I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with Ziero, with whom I usually agree with.

[Ziero]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

Except both SE and the cops go after small fish all the time.

Again, there are pages of BG's alpha topic that have had it's pics taken down at SE's request. Simple Pictures. Smallest of the small fries. While some are still up, they get through because...this is the key point...no one reports them.

Just like how the Alpha Manual...a BIG damn fish...snuck past everyone for a good week on this very site without SE doing anything about it. Because no one reported it.

SE don't know what people don't tell them.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

There's two issues I have with testing and NDAs nowadays. Firstly, from my experience of testing in the past, most people I've encountered who get in to alpha and beta tests don't do so out of a desire to test the game and provide feedback in order to improve it. It's purely a route to play the game earlier than everyone else either for plain enjoyment, the kudos of simply playing it prior to gold, or hardcore gamers getting the learning phase of the game out the way so when it does release they can steamroll to endgame and inevitably establish a stranglehold on content.

Secondly, and more importantly, everyone who agrees to an NDA has given their word they won't breach the agreement. Now, it's probably deemed naive, unrealistic, or simply unfashionable by most to expect people to keep their word but I see it all over this forum from people claiming a small breach is okay, such as Kailea admitting he's testing and confirming leaked info, to others calling foul when people are linking screenshots and ingame clips. There's no grey area, any leak or admission is a clear breach of an agreement you put your name to. Either keep your mouth shut and continue testing or open it and be branded along with the people you so hypocritically try to demonise.

[Kailea]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

Kailea admitting he's testing and confirming leaked info

saying something is fake, when it is clearly not is kind of dumb is it not?, the manual was the only thing I ever commented on anyway, the other stuff was already released by famisu.

I am not going to get in an argument here, but I find it a little stupid to place me in the same category as that Pooky person.

Yes the NDA is the NDA, but is not a speed limit the speed limit? Do people not go 1-2 miles over the speed limit all the time?

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

I am not going to get in an argument here, but I find it a little stupid to place me in the same category as that Pooky person.

You can't argue for the simple fact you broke the NDA just as he/she did.

I'm presuming one of the first sentences on the NDA is you agree not to tell anyone you're testing FFXIV.

[Kailea]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

You can't argue for the simple fact you broke the NDA just as he/she did.

I'm presuming one of the first sentences on the NDA is you agree not to tell anyone you're testing FFXIV.

said I was not going to get into an argument, I said what I said did I not? that's all I am going to say.

[Ziero]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

I don't think saying you're in the beta breaks the NDA, but the only way to confirm that would be someone in the beta clarifying it for us. However that may in fact end up breaking the NDA

[Ufgt]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

Holy shit, the hypocrasy is outta control.

/leaves thread.