Discussion about breaking NDAs

[Neverslip]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

"The first rule of NDA is: you do not talk about NDA. The second rule of NDA is: you do not talk about NDA." ~ Cid of Bastok

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

Stop with the insults and name calling. This thread exists so there can be a civil discussion but if this keeps up it will just end up being another closed thread.

---------- Post added at 01:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 PM ----------

However, you seem to feel "leaking for the fans" does "absolutely no harm", while it was in fact many of the fans who were complaining about how bad the game looks from Alpha shots. These are people who are regulars to FFXI sites, played XI for years and have eagerly been awaiting information about XIV who still are too dim to realize what it means to see an Alpha version of the game.

I disagree with people using this to say the game is being harmed. First, it is a VERY small percentage that were saying that. So take out of that percentage the people that were just saying it looked bad publicly but were in fact texting their friends excited about it. They are only jealous that they couldn't play. Then take out of that percentage the other MMO nerds who just came to get a rise out of the FF nerds. And so on, in the end you are left with so few people that it does not harm the game one iota. In fact, if these people were truly interested in the game they would be looking for more info on it, end up on a forum with fans of the game, and be educated quickly about how the game is in alpha testing and that features can and will change.

[Kafeen]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

I don't think saying you're in the beta breaks the NDA, but the only way to confirm that would be someone in the beta clarifying it for us. However that may in fact end up breaking the NDA

You can read the NDA at : Square Enix Support Center

2.6 Beta Tester's Confidentiality Obligations
(d) THE IDENTITY OF BETA TESTER AND THE FACT THAT BETA TESTER IS PARTICIPATING IN THE BETA TEST

It is rather unusual to have something that strict.

[Mhurron]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

You can read the NDA at : Square Enix Support Center

2.6 Beta Tester's Confidentiality Obligations
(d) THE IDENTITY OF BETA TESTER AND THE FACT THAT BETA TESTER IS PARTICIPATING IN THE BETA TEST

It is rather unusual to have something that strict.

It might be in a MMO test, I don't know, but in general it's not that odd.

[Pwnagraphic]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

p.s. there was still a dozen+ other live streams of the game available at the time. If that's not considered "mainstream" I don't know what is.

TV? Magazines? People who weren't interested in XIV, didn't see it. I don't stop to watch people streaming Gilmore Girls on justin.tv cause I'm not interested. This only helped SE, not hurt them. Regardless if the NDA exists, or not, people are going to leak info. "Rules are made to be broken." I'm sure you heard that term, and some people don't give a rats ass about the NDA they most likely didn't read, lol.

Yes the NDA is the NDA, but is not a speed limit the speed limit? Do people not go 1-2 miles over the speed limit all the time?

Hey! Use your own analogies!! lol jk
But that also means.. breaking the Law is breaking the law regardless if Officer Daniels allows you to go 1-2 over. Cause most people go +10Alpha. I'm sure you had a defense, I didn't see it, but I will leave it at that.

But.. Leaked info is a little more critical than mentioning you're in the Alpha/beta.

[Ufgt]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

Gilmore Girls

I love Glimore Girls. Alexis Bledel = .

[Kailea]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

sorry Pwnagraphic, saw you use it some where else and it was to perfect to not use ;p

[Ziero]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

I disagree with people using this to say the game is being harmed. First, it is a VERY small percentage that were saying that. So take out of that percentage the people that were just saying it looked bad publicly but were in fact texting their friends excited about it. They are only jealous that they couldn't play. Then take out of that percentage the other MMO nerds who just came to get a rise out of the FF nerds. And so on, in the end you are left with so few people that it does not harm the game one iota. In fact, if these people were truly interested in the game they would be looking for more info on it, end up on a forum with fans of the game, and be educated quickly about how the game is in alpha testing and that features can and will change.

Honestly, I personally don't care about NDAs myself. I was just pointing out the flawed argument in thinking that "leaks only 'hurt' the game when they go mainstream" by showing that 'hardcore' fans were complaining about the game pretty loudly as well. Whatever their reasons for bitching, whether it to be trolling the general fanbase or because they really are too stupid to understand the meaning of an Alpha phase test, in SE's eyes these negative reactions could hurt the game.

2.6 Beta Tester's Confidentiality Obligations
(d) THE IDENTITY OF BETA TESTER AND THE FACT THAT BETA TESTER IS PARTICIPATING IN THE BETA TEST

Well snap then, I guess Kailea is boned then

TV? Magazines? People who weren't interested in XIV, didn't see it. I don't stop to watch people streaming Gilmore Girls on justin.tv cause I'm not interested. This only helped SE, not hurt them. Regardless if the NDA exists, or not, people are going to leak info. "Rules are made to be broken." I'm sure you heard that term, and some people don't give a rats ass about the NDA they most likely didn't read, lol.

....err, chances are, none of this leaked XIV info will ever be on TV or in any real magazine. Unless someone ups and cracks the secret code to spill all the technical secrets of how SE made the game thus compromising the entire integrity of the project, putting a massive dent in SE's work etc etc, simply leaking in game graphics and gameplay at this stage will never really leave hardcore videogame nerd websites. I'm not saying whether this helped SE or hurt them, as it more then likely had no real effect either way. People who were excited still are, people who weren't still aren't and people on the fence are more then likely still on the fence. All we will ever know is that SE has their agreement, people who break it for any reason can be kicked out of the beta and any info that gets leaked and posted online can be approached by SE to remove that content regardless of what it is.

SE can, will and has asked websites to remove videos, information and even simple pics from their sites, and it's more about how many people reported a leak that gets it plugged rather then what exactly the leak entails. Being a smaller site, DiV seems to get away with more since no one's really calling anything in. But over at BG, people posting the OST or video download links get their links removed, and many people had images taken down. Sure leaks will happen, and I personally have no problem with em, but SE does and makes no distinction as to the type of leak it is. Which was more or less the point I was making, we as fans may disagree or make gray areas of what is and isn't 'ok', but SE is much more black and white on the matter.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

Shit even if Kailea didn't say he was in the beta himself, any one of the butthurt people on the alpha forums or wherever it was that he mentioned reporting would have pointed the finger at him out in the open on the internet anyway, so it isn't like it's some big huge secret anymore after all that took place.

Reading here and some of the threads at BG I just have to shake my head at the sense of entitlement some people have about some things, for instance, this big leaked stream. People were up in arms about Pooky getting banned because they wanted to watch, well that's great, but they weren't supposed to see it. People calling him a martyr and whatnot ... that just seems really lame to me. He broke the rules, plain and simple, and the Alpha version of the game was not even meant to be seen. It really kind of grinds my gears how many people just think they're entitled to so much shit that they really aren't.

Not saying I don't hate being kept in the dark just as much as anyone else, but I guess I'm just more patient than other people or something. I'll live without seeing every single last piece of XIV information before it comes out. And that's even if I play it. Still undecided, which is beside the point.

[Maju]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

People were up in arms about Pooky getting banned because they wanted to watch, well that's great, but they weren't supposed to see it.

Weren't supposed to see it says who? SE? Why should the players care what SE thinks? They don't owe SE anything. The NDA is legally binding but not morally so. It's understandable that they're upset for losing a great source of information.

I find it strange how often so many people are prepared to kiss the ass of a company that should be kissing their ass. The company lives and dies by the whims of the customer, not vice versa!

[Icemage]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

Watch the name-calling, folks. This is your final warning.


Icemage

[Aksannyi]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

Come on, Maju, you know I'm one of the biggest SE haters on this board (read some of my posts right around the time I kept getting those stupid credit card bans, or right around the time I quit), but the fact of the matter is, the material wasn't supposed to get out. SE does want to keep customers happy, I understand that, but they also know how they want to market their product.

Sure, these people owe SE nothing (except payment for their game if they're still playing it), but SE also owes us nothing at all. They did release some video footage of XIV way back around what, E3 was it? But nothing they do is enough, is it?

Yeah, I sure do bitch about their stupid ninja fixes of some things and the fact that they can't keep themselves in touch with their playerbase, but I also know that as much as people feel like SE owes them explanations for everything, they actually don't. Yeah, it sure did piss me off when they released that absolute suck-fest of a video showing us how to kill AV (and didn't actually teach us shit), but if they don't want to give us information, they don't have to.

[hexx]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

I've been reading up on this for the past few pages and all I gotta say is this:

The NDA is created for a reason. You are asked, as an alpha/beta tester to agree to and follow it. You are warned ahead of time of the penalties that exist for breaking it. When said alpha/beta tester gets banned for breaking it, they got what they deserved. NDA's arent created just to look pretty on the paper they were printed or the page they were typed on.

Leaking key/critical information about a game in alpha/beta stages only serves to do more harm than good to the game. FFXIV is highly anticipated, and will most likely pull players from other MMO's away from them to make them quit, which in turn causes a loss to other MMO companies. They are looking to find w/e they can do to improve their games so as to not lose players to the competition, so think they won't be on the prowl to see what they can copy/emulate so as to stay competitive?! Come on folks, these idiots making themselves out to be martyrs for getting banned only brought this shit onto themselves for breaking the rules.

[Cryxen]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

simply leaking in game graphics and gameplay at this stage will never really leave hardcore videogame nerd websites.

This is what i've been stressing all along.

How will it hurt if educated fans are watching? It won't because they know what stage the game is in it's development.


I believe SE don't care terribly about these such leaks but stop them when they gain mementum to prevent them becoming saturated.

The NDA bans all leaks to give SE precedent, but they knew that leaks would occur because they are using random people on the internet to test their game.

---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 AM ----------

It's the same with the user agreement for this very site.

You aren't allowed to insult people but if you do it once in a while they don't care. The same goes with leaking anonymous pics, SE won't release the bloodhounds unless they actually find it. However they clearly haven't gone out of their way because they know they're using outside testers.

If you flame people with reckless abandon like me you'll be piledrived by a jacked up admin (I love you guys really)

[Neverslip]

Re: Discussion about breaking NDAs

They are looking to find w/e they can do to improve their games so as to not lose players to the competition, so think they won't be on the prowl to see what they can copy/emulate so as to stay competitive?

... essentially there are these types:

"Listen carefully, because I'm going to make you very rich...blah... blah... Everlasting... blah... blah...Gobbstopper" ~ Arthur Slugworth

... and this:

2.6 Beta Tester's Confidentiality Obligations
(d) THE IDENTITY OF BETA TESTER AND THE FACT THAT BETA TESTER IS PARTICIPATING IN THE BETA TEST

It is rather unusual to have something that strict.

... is essentially SE's:

"Wrong, sir! Wrong! Under section 37B of the contract signed by him, it states quite clearly that all offers shall become null and void if - and you can read it for yourself in this photostatic copy - "I, the undersigned, shall forfeit all rights, privileges, and licenses herein and herein contained," et cetera, et cetera... "Fax mentis, incendium gloria cultum," et cetera, et cetera... Memo bis punitor delicatum! It's all there! Black and white, clear as crystal! You STOLE Fizzy-Lifting Drinks! You BUMPED into the ceiling, which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get... NOTHING!!! You lose! GOOD DAY, SIR!" ~ W. Wonka

Tattle-tails may be unpopular and some breaches to contracts may seem worth-while... all in the eye of the beholder for me on that one. One man's drinking water might be another man's place to piss... just gotta hope the right person is up-stream from the other.