God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

[DakAttack]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

Heavy Rain wasn't exactly a QTE, in my opinion, because it's not so much an event as it is almost the entire fucking game. It works well as a control scheme and makes trumblesome situations that more exciting.

[Ziero]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

I don't see why the cinematic can't be played after beating the boss without the QTE.

Because it's a way to trick people into believing they still have some sort of control over what's going on. It's not just "Ok, you beat the boss, now watch the movie" it's "Ok, you're almost done, now rip out his eyes by pressing X then impale him on his own weapon by pressing O!". It takes a basic, simple FMV and turns it into an actual part of the gameplay, meaning if you screw up you have to do it again. So when you eventually get it right, you're rewarded with that smooth flowing, overly graphic cutscene you were looking for. It lets the player remain in control of the action the entire time their character is doing otherwise impossible to do things.

[cidbahamut]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

So when you eventually get it right, you're rewarded with that smooth flowing, overly graphic cutscene you were looking for.

Or you could just play the cutscene from the get-go instead of frustrating the player.

[Ufgt]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

Arguing in circles is fun.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

Arguing in circles is fun.

Yeah, your "haters gonna hate" argument really opened up my eyes, man.

Why do I need a "break" from how I've been kicking the boss' ass when one more hit of combo would have finished the job?

[Ziero]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

But he's right, we're just arguing in circles and people who don't like it will always not like it and people who do like it will always like it.

QTE finishers are that happy medium between finishing off the boss with some weak ass lucky hit and finishing up the boss in a completely uncontrollable FMV. I don't really see how that's so hard to understand.

"Why don't they just give you the FMV?" Because the devs didn't want to, that's why.

You don't have to like them, but when used well (like the finishers in the GoW games), QTEs allow players to remain in control while they have their characters go above and beyond what is normally possible with the rest of the game mechanics and allow the characters to do specific actions tailor made to suit that exact moment in time. How is that such a hard concept to grasp?

[cidbahamut]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

"Why don't they just give you the FMV?" Because the devs didn't want to, that's why.

Because clearly all design decisions are infallible, right?

You don't have to like them, but when used well (like the finishers in the GoW games), QTEs allow players to remain in control while they have their characters go above and beyond what is normally possible with the rest of the game mechanics and allow the characters to do specific actions tailor made to suit that exact moment in time. How is that such a hard concept to grasp?

Because it's just the illusion of control, and more often than not you simply end up being penalized for playing Simon Says when you should have been kicking back and watching a cutscene.

I'll grant you that finishing moves can be a happy medium, but the only time I've seen it done well is in Mad World where they occur after you've defeated the boss, are trivially easy and you can't fail them.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

You don't have to like them, but when used well (like the finishers in the GoW games), QTEs allow players to remain in control while they have their characters go above and beyond what is normally possible with the rest of the game mechanics and allow the characters to do specific actions tailor made to suit that exact moment in time. How is that such a hard concept to grasp?

Well, for one, if it looks and smells like bullshit, it probably is.

Secondly, the arguments in favor of QTE are reverse engineered in this thread at best. Nothing has risen above "change of pace" and "do things you normally couldn't do" which are not bringing up factual game design reasons.

The #1 way to piss people off at work, play or in personal relationships is to be arbitrary. Why did everyone I know at Dell hate being there? Because the scheduling was arbitrary. How the work days were scheduled had no meaning because it was always done on-the-fly and showed no respect to people's personal lives. But you could count on the management to give you this holier-than-thou crap about "being adults about this."

If you're not going to tell me that I'm working Saturday until 11pm on Thurday, I should be pissed off at you.

Yeah, I'll be an adult about my every weekend being stolen from me because you guys couldn't schedule a year in advance like every other manufacturing company on the planet does.

So when the developer can't decide how to end a fight, even after all they've taught me prior to the boss, and then they go and change it to arbitrary button presses I'm supposed to just pat them on the back and say "Good job, that was really cinematic of you."

[Ziero]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

Except people seem to like the GoW finishing QTEs so in this case it was most certainly a good idea.

And the QTE's in GoW certainly aren't difficult either and only come after you've pummeled the boss so much it's practically dead anyway...which sounds exactly like what you described in Mad World!

More and more this is actually seeming like a case of "haters gonna hate".

So when the developer can't decide how to end a fight, even after all they've taught me prior to the boss, and then they go and change it to arbitrary button presses I'm supposed to just pat them on the back and say "Good job, that was really cinematic of you."

The devs know exactly how they want the fight to end. In fact the whole point of having QTE finishers is to give you an exact and specific method to finishing the fight. It's not arbitrary in any way shape or form, and is in fact one of the most deliberate and purposeful ways to have you as the player end the fight. There are many many many fights in GoW where at the end of the QTE you gain a new power that you specifically ripped from the boss. The devs wanted to make sure you as the player were the one tearing off that head or ripping that item from the monster's gullet. How you can claim one of the game's biggest, most well known features that the players of said game seem to really enjoy is in any way shape or form "arbitrary" is comical at best.

Yes, the complaint of "they could have just made it an FMV!" is somewhat valid. But in the end, the Devs made a specific, deliberate choice to make sure the player remained involved in these cinematic finishers to give them some semblance...even if it is a false one...of control while these actions are taking place. It lets you, the player, actually play the game, even during these FMV finishers.

What about the one-shotting in cut scenes in Bayonetta? You can play a level to perfection and get killed by a cutscene QTE and it affects your overall scoring for that level.

I don't know about the QTE in Bayonetta, I haven't played it. It's pretty much why I've avoided the Bayonetta thread. But if the QTE in that game are done badly, that's more a reflection of that game itself as opposed to QTE in general. In GoW however, a game I have played, all the QTE were done very well and had very little to no negative effect even if you did screw up.

[Ufgt]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

I would rather go through a QTE insetad of "I hit this boss for the last 1% of his life and he died". TO ME, it's more satisfying to "bring this boss down to 10% and than see a crazy QTE of my character doing something that can't be achieved within the gameplay engine finish off this boss".

Don't want to sound like a broken record, but haters gonna hate regardless of what argument is made... on both sides. We can't sway each others opinions, so why bother trying? Because arguing in circles is fun.

:D.

[Armando]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

The devs know exactly how they want the fight to end. In fact the whole point of having QTE finishers is to give you an exact and specific method to finishing the fight.

Again, they can just present the cinematic without the button-pressing. Which brings us to the next point...

How you can claim one of the game's biggest, most well known features that the players of said game seem to really enjoy is in any way shape or form "arbitrary" is comical at best.

The arbitrary thing about it is the button combinations. Unless they have any actual meaning after the QTE - repeating them will do an attack - they're just an arbitrary sequence of buttons. I don't need something like that just to give myself a fake feeling of accomplishment.

I would rather go through a QTE insetad of "I hit this boss for the last 1% of his life and he died". TO ME, it's more satisfying to "bring this boss down to 10% and than see a crazy QTE of my character doing something that can't be achieved within the gameplay engine finish off this boss".

Again, there is an alternative - the KH2 system where only the cooler hits will actually take off that last chunk of HP. The weaker hits will still stagger and lead into the end of the combo but won't kill the boss. QTE is not the only alternative to anti-climactic finishes. Or you could just have the cutscene.

The argument really boils down to whether or not someone thinks it's more satisfying to see a cutscene of the boss being owned (or just finish the boss in a flashy way yourself,) or having to press a couple of buttons to see that cutscene.

[cidbahamut]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

And the QTE's in GoW certainly aren't difficult either and only come after you've pummeled the boss so much it's practically dead anyway...which sounds exactly like what you described in Mad World!

Except that it's not what I described.

[Ziero]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

Except that it's not what I described.

From what you described, you beat up the boss until it's dead, then do a QTE to finish it off. Which is pretty much exactly what happens with GoW finishers. The only difference is in one game you can fail and the other you can't.

Again, they can just present the cinematic without the button-pressing. Which brings us to the next point...

Yes, the complaint of "they could have just made it an FMV!" is somewhat valid. But in the end, the Devs made a specific, deliberate choice to make sure the player remained involved in these cinematic finishers to give them some semblance...even if it is a false one...of control while these actions are taking place. It lets you, the player, actually play the game, even during these FMV finishers.

The arbitrary thing about it is the button combinations. Unless they have any actual meaning after the QTE - repeating them will do an attack - they're just an arbitrary sequence of buttons. I don't need something like that just to give myself a fake feeling of accomplishment.

...wait, so the complaint is that the buttons you have to press during a QTE don't do the same thing during non-QTEs? How is that even a valid complaint? QTEs are a different aspect of the game then normal gameplay, as such the button's functions change to match the change in gameplay. It's just like how some parts of the game have you flying through the air or swinging and climbing, certain buttons will do different things in different situations within the game. The "arbitrary" button choices during finishing QTEs in GoW are just like a mini-game, press the matching button at the right time to keep advancing forward through the sequence. The button combination don't have to have any use or meaning outside of QTEs since QTEs are a change in the gameplay mechanics specifically tailored to the situation at hand.

Again, there is an alternative - the KH2 system where only the cooler hits will actually take off that last chunk of HP. The weaker hits will still stagger and lead into the end of the combo but won't kill the boss. QTE is not the only alternative to anti-climactic finishes. Or you could just have the cutscene.

The argument really boils down to whether or not someone thinks it's more satisfying to see a cutscene of the boss being owned (or just finish the boss in a flashy way yourself,) or having to press a couple of buttons to see that cutscene.

No one said QTEs were the only choice, but what is being said is that they're a good choice for this type of game. In the end though, it's all about preference, so where as many of you don't particularly enjoy them, many other people do. It's not a case of right or wrong, or better or worse, because some ideas don't fit as well in some games as they do others. QTEs fit very well with God of War however which is why they've continued to use them in each and every game they've made in the series so far.

So far the only real complaint about QTEs is "I don't like them, therefore they suck!". Well that's good and all, just don't play games you know are built around them.

[Lmnop]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

I'm glad I started this.

(even if it quickly morphed into a metaphysical debate on the virtues of QTE)

[Yellow Mage]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

gen, god, mew mew mew, presentation, revolutionary, war

We find these QTEs to be self-evident, that all Gods of War are created equal . . .