God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

[jenova_9]

This seems to have "cinematic" quality and "player interaction" in perfect harmony to keep it a game instead of more movie than game.

spoilers first 10 minutes.....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKV8_NogSUY

The presentation alone is breathtaking!

[DakAttack]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

QTE makes me feel dead on the inside.

[jenova_9]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

QTE is great when applied properly. Plus it makes the battles themselves more organic and allow animations that would be impossible to link in real-time. It also makes those sequences more hands-on to the player.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

Behold! Jenova 9 has found the new messiah game. WKC is old and busted now.

On a more serious note:

QTE is never good no matter what. It is lazy game design attempting to be cinematic. And for years we've had several ways around it even before it became "popular."

I'm playing Okami right now and its a fantastic example. Amaterasu's Celestial Paintbrush is not that unlike Link's Ocarina in the Zelda games. instead of notes to play, your paint symbols. And when it does approach boarderline QTE stuff, it again takes a page from the Zelda game and hints that a recently obtained brush stroke could be relevant to resolving a scene.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhfEbS8GFgM"]YouTube- Okami (Wii) - Gameplay Video[/ame]

Rather than flash buttons on the screen and reminding us we're playing a video game. Okami and Zelda encourage us to use things we've learned, skills/items our characters have obtained to approach the situation. This keeps things fun without being immersion-breaking.

And there's no middle ground for QTE, either you're going to be forced to repeat a sequence because you didn't see the QTE coming (Bayonetta being a recent culprit) or they're presented like a underhanded pitch (Heavy Rain). Either way, no real skill or knowledge is being rewarded for performing a QTE.

We also have context sensitive actions. Those have been around since the start of gaming.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylFTrZrwMs4"]YouTube- Conker's Bad Fur Day Playthrough Part 2 - Context Sensitive[/ame]

[cidbahamut]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

Sorry BBQ, but even Okami's QTE were a pain in the ass. When I sit there trying to nail a single sequence for over 15 minutes, something has gone horribly wrong.

To quote a notorious internet celebrity: Quicktime events can fuck right off.

---------- Post added at 12:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 PM ----------

QTE is great when applied properly.

Give me three examples of this ever happening.

Plus it makes the battles themselves more organic and allow animations that would be impossible to link in real-time.

Why would they be impossible to link in real-time? That's absurd.

It also makes those sequences more hands-on to the player.

More hands on than, oh I don't know, maybe simply playing through them normally? If you need to do cinematics for plot purposes or whatever, then why in god's name would you want to interrupt the flow with QTE?

Jenova, you're full of bullshit and I'm calling you out on it.

[hexx]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

Sorry BBQ, but even Okami's QTE were a pain in the ass. When I sit there trying to nail a single sequence for over 15 minutes, something has gone horribly wrong.

To quote a notorious internet celebrity: Quicktime events can fuck right off.

---------- Post added at 12:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 PM ----------


Give me three examples of this ever happening.


Why would they be impossible to link in real-time? That's absurd.


More hands on than, oh I don't know, maybe simply playing through them normally? If you need to do cinematics for plot purposes or whatever, then why in god's name would you want to interrupt the flow with QTE?

Jenova, you're full of bullshit and I'm calling you out on it.

For once I'm gonna play devil's advocate here and agree somewhat with J9. First off, I find QTE's pretty entertaining, and a decent break from the constant button mashing/mindlessness of a game. Yeah, a lot of QTE's require twitch reflexes, but hey, it goes to show whether or not you are paying attention and not just mashing buttons for the fuck of it.

The funny thing is if there isn't some variety in the gameplay, people bitch anyways. So how about you get off that high horse and quit bitching about QTE's?

[DakAttack]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

What's the point? You control the character 100% up until a QTE, and all of a sudden it's all taken away and you're given a stupid sequence of buttons to press. If you want something cinematic, just play a damn movie like everybody else does, because it's not like you're actually watching the movie while focused on what button may pop up next.

Did Sephiroth kill Aerith during a QTE? No.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

For once I'm gonna play devil's advocate here and agree somewhat with J9. First off, I find QTE's pretty entertaining, and a decent break from the constant button mashing/mindlessness of a game. Yeah, a lot of QTE's require twitch reflexes, but hey, it goes to show whether or not you are paying attention and not just mashing buttons for the fuck of it.

The funny thing is if there isn't some variety in the gameplay, people bitch anyways. So how about you get off that high horse and quit bitching about QTE's?

Cidbahamut asked for some examples of "good" use of QTE. I don't see you providing examples any more than Jenova has.

I've provided my counterpoint examples

Here's another:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DAaDZ8mTjY"]YouTube- Punch Out!! Review[/ame]

On top of intuitive combat/puzzle solving and context-sensitive button presses (which don't have to be as obvious as the Conker example, there's also telegraphing. Telegraphing accomplishes the same effect you claim QTEs do - its checking to see if you've paid attention,

And if you pay attention to telegraphing, then you can avoid serious damage or find an opportunity to do serious damage. Lots of games outside of Punch-Out!! use this method and there's nothing jarring about it. It also keeps things rather cinematic.

QTEs are a painful throwback to the laserdisc "games" of the 80s and early 90s. If I want this throwback, I'll download Dragon's Lair, Space Ace or find a copy of Mad Dog Mcree.

[jenova_9]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

Did Sephiroth kill Aerith during a QTE? No.

Sephiroth wasn't even the protagonist. very bad example.

in GoW3 demo, the QTE are not unforgivable like Shenmue. You can try again, and it really isn't hard to get used to.
Also it makes those really awesome animations and ways Kratos attacks and finishes the enemy, more hands on and more
exciting. It sure is better than just watching a cutscene.

And it makes the sequences feels more rewarding too! It makes all the difference between just watching or having control over many actions
not available during the normal gameplay system. it can make things cinematic while still keeping it a game.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5YBl0QJERQ"]YouTube- God of War II: Finishing Moves (bosses)[/ame]

and no don't start those "well go watch a movie if you want cinematic", because ppl who say that are missing the point. :p

[DakAttack]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

and no don't start those "well go watch a movie if you want cinematic", because ppl who say that are missing the point. :p

What the hell is the point?

[jenova_9]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

What the hell is the point?

Ahhhhhhh this is like explaining to someone the difference between watching a sport and playing a sport. >.<

It's the interaction combined with the cinematic sequences. Games use cinematic sequences, because there are
movements, and actions that wouldn't look or work right in real-time. Like naturally swinging on a monsters jaw while holding
onto a chain, flipping over their head, latching the chain on the other side of their jaw, swinging under it and ripping the jaw right off. as a cutscene it would work fine because it's just a cutscene, but as a QTE sequence, whether the action is successful or doesn't succeed will depend on player's hands on input and reaction time.

It keeps the player in control of the character's action even during the most cinematic parts. Of course not every single action will be QTE based, but just enough to keep the player involved with the action onscreen, and still make the experience more than
just the typical "spam attacks on the enemy until you watch the next cutscene and move on to the next level." game.

That's why the most epic battles in GoW are known to be more organic and unique in how the battle changes and actions
that are not used all the time.

It really makes the difference in the ways the battles/events unfold and with the player engaged to it, even with a few well thought out QTE parts, makes it more satisfying.

Context sensitive actions combine the cinematic quality of animations and actions, with the interaction of gameplay to create an artistic
combination of actions that's more than just a cutscene, it's a hands on event.

[cidbahamut]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

Are we discussing QTE or button combos for finishing moves here?

[jenova_9]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

Are we discussing QTE or button combos for finishing moves here?

both. anyways I'm pretty much done discussing, I just share an opinion and that's all.

[cidbahamut]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

both.

Please make the distinction as the two are different things even if they sometimes overlap.

anyways I'm pretty much done discussing, I just share an opinion and that's all.

This explains why trying to hold a discussion with you always leaves me feeling like I'm beating my head against a brick wall.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: God of War 3. next gen revolutionary presentation?

Ahhhhhhh this is like explaining to someone the difference between watching a sport and playing a sport. >.<

It's the interaction combined with the cinematic sequences. Games use cinematic sequences, because there are
movements, and actions that wouldn't look or work right in real-time. Like naturally swinging on a monsters jaw while holding
onto a chain, flipping over their head, latching the chain on the other side of their jaw, swinging under it and ripping the jaw right off. as a cutscene it would work fine because it's just a cutscene, but as a QTE sequence, whether the action is successful or doesn't succeed will depend on player's hands on input and reaction time.

It keeps the player in control of the character's action even during the most cinematic parts. Of course not every single action will be QTE based, but just enough to keep the player involved with the action onscreen, and still make the experience more than
just the typical "spam attacks on the enemy until you watch the next cutscene and move on to the next level." game.

That's why the most epic battles in GoW are known to be more organic and unique in how the battle changes and actions
that are not used all the time.

It really makes the difference in the ways the battles/events unfold and with the player engaged to it, even with a few well thought out QTE parts, makes it more satisfying.

Context sensitive actions combine the cinematic quality of animations and actions, with the interaction of gameplay to create an artistic
combination of actions that's more than just a cutscene, it's a hands on event.

Glad you mentioned scaling monsters, here's another example. This is cinematic and has no QTEs, either:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4l2iuGWxGA&feature=related"]YouTube- Shadow of the Colossus (PS2) 1st Colossus[/ame]

Manages to keep you pretty involve the whole time. in between fighting these things, you get to ride a horse across the landscape.