RUMORED Demon's Souls 2?

[Lmnop]

Re: RUMORED Demon's Souls 2?

Part of the fun of the story is exploring through the game world and piecing it together yourself. But even as is, for a dungeon crawlers, the story, and potential behind the story, is pretty deep.

More assumptions that I'm not getting the most out of it because I'm not an awesome enough gamer.

You made a stupid mistake, thus you get punished for it. Dealing with those "worthless dredges" is the punishment for rushing blindly into the one of many traps littering this game.

Ugh. This'll always be the area where I call bull shit and you fanatics think it's game design done perfectly.

That "inconsistency" is just one of many tricks and secrets you should be looking for.

bullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshit

Have you ever heard of "physics"? If a game doesn't let me jump one 3 foot tall wall with a 10 foot fall, it must not want me jumping walls. But lo and behold, it's ok to jump this 3 foot wall followed by a 30' drop!

You're defending something you love by any means necessary. If you disagree with nothing else I say, this is one area you need to open your eyes.

evasion

It would simply be my ideal that different characters would have different priorities for attacking. Regardless, Demon's Souls does a fantastic job of taking an aged style of combat (i.e. 3rd person action pre-Devil May Cry) and making it continually challenging, rewarding, intuitive, and smooth. So let's not mince words over something we both feel the game did well.

A Str based melee character would also most likely have more End and Vit, allowing for much more endurance, HP and even carrying and equip capacity.

I don't want to make a big thing of this. But the magician has just as much reason for upping end and vit when he's using a crescent weapon and relying on magic stat for damage. Every mage is easily a fighter-mage.

+7 scimitar

Stop talking about this. We're not on the same page.

----

I really wanna get Demon's Souls again, now. Thanks, d-bags.

[Tickmeoff]

Re: RUMORED Demon's Souls 2?

Have you ever heard of "physics"? If a game doesn't let me jump one 3 foot tall wall with a 10 foot fall, it must not want me jumping walls. But lo and behold, it's ok to jump this 3 foot wall followed by a 30' drop!

Kind of in agreement with you here. I would be in full agreement, but that is honestly the one place in the entire game that you ever need to climb up or over anything. There are some other spots it can be done but they are pretty much places you would only go if you were backtracking through the level.

I've always just rolled off the stairs to get down there myself. Didn't even know you could climb the wall until a few months ago and I still just roll it anyway.

Ugh. This'll always be the area where I call bull shit and you fanatics think it's game design done perfectly.

It's definitely an old style of game design, but what punishment for death would you prefer? Most games these days hold your hand and let you restart where you died or at some checkpoint 10 feet away, or they let you save anywhere so you can save around the corner and die all you want until you get it right.

I really do not want to see From Software reduce Demon's Souls to that. If they come up with some other method of actual punishment for death that isn't losing all your souls and restarting the level I wont complain, but I just do not see a problem with the way it currently is.

I was actually hoping they'd make it a little more harsh in the sequel. Something like on top of having to repeat the stage up to that point again your equipment should also lose some durability.

Difficulty related:

I just finished Bioshock 2 recently. That game's "difficulty" was a fucking joke. I played it on "Hard" with vita-chambers (respawn points, if you haven't played bioshock) off and still breezed through the game like nothing. At all times I had the max amount of healing items and I had to keep buying obscure ammo I would never use just to avoid my wallet being maxed out all the time. Even after the final "battle" I had nearly max ammo in every weapon. If I actually died (never happened) oh well, press F11, look at that I am right back where I was 10 seconds ago!

This is not what I want to see Demon's Souls reduced to. I like the fact that I have put several hundred hours across ~20 characters into this game and I can still fuck up and die now and then even though I know pretty much everything about the game, and I don't mind trudging my way back through the level because I do so knowing that it was my fault I died and this is what happens when I screw up.

Maybe it's just me. I grew up playing games like Mega Man and Ninja Gaiden on the NES so the difficulty of modern games sickens me. Demon's Souls brought back that challenge I have longed for, so maybe that's why I love the game so much.



TLDR: I see where you are coming from sir but I respectfully disagree with you.

[Neverslip]

Re: RUMORED Demon's Souls 2?

I grew up playing games like Mega Man and Ninja Gaiden on the NES

... f'n birds, dude... I hated those goddamn things!!!!

[Ziero]

Re: RUMORED Demon's Souls 2?

A simple change I would love to see in Demon's Souls 2 that could really alter the game play and, imo, add a new level of difficulty to it would be random mob placement at the start of every level. Instead of everything being at the same exact spot every time, the non-important mobs would each have random spawn placements so that every time you entered the dungeon you would never know where these things would be. As is, you rely a lot on repetition and memory to go through dungeons, but if some of the weaker mobs changed spawn points, and sometimes certain spots would contain ambushes that weren't there before, it would add a new level to the challenge and thrill of the game.

Though it could potentially mess up the whole message leaving system (which needs to remain in this game), harder monsters, common ambush and trap spots and secret passages would still need to be warned about.

[Lmnop]

Re: RUMORED Demon's Souls 2?

It's definitely an old style of game design, but what punishment for death would you prefer?

I'll go a direction I bet you wouldn't expect me to take:

First off, you respawn 1 room away, or at the beginning of the stage w/out mob respawns (if you want them back, use the key stone deals to zone in and back).

Second, remove bloodstains. That's right. Every death costs your stock of souls. You can jump back into the fray, but you only have one thing to be frustrated at instead of 42 (the number of opportunities for me to die on my way to the maneaters). In fact, it's actually a bit more anguishing, but w/out wasting my time.

Perhaps make it so dying in body form doesn't cost souls. So it becomes a very occasional "get-out-of-jail-free card".

...

Btw, is dual wielding even useful? I can understand the offhand not having any combos (I guess) and not meshing with main hand combos. But I can't even counterattack or get backstab damage with an offhanded dagger?

I'd love to see a sequel get those last 2 functions.

[Tickmeoff]

Re: RUMORED Demon's Souls 2?

Dual wielding can be useful depending on what you choose to offhand.

An Uchigatana has a fast offhand swing that you can use to start a combo. Some people dual wield them for this reason. There are a couple other weapons that have a slightly faster attack in the offhand but I can't think of any specifics right now.

Parrying dagger in your offhand gives you a larger parrying window than a shield. Not that much larger, but it's pretty nifty.

All curved swords can parry. Sure you could just use a shield, but parrying with a Kilij is pretty bad ass.

Weapons that give you buffs work in the offhand even if you are two-handing your main hand weapon.


Other than that dual wielding is mostly pointless/just for looks. I would like to see them implement a real dual wielding mode in the sequel.

[Ziero]

Re: RUMORED Demon's Souls 2?

I'll go a direction I bet you wouldn't expect me to take:

First off, you respawn 1 room away, or at the beginning of the stage w/out mob respawns (if you want them back, use the key stone deals to zone in and back).

Second, remove bloodstains. That's right. Every death costs your stock of souls. You can jump back into the fray, but you only have one thing to be frustrated at instead of 42 (the number of opportunities for me to die on my way to the maneaters). In fact, it's actually a bit more anguishing, but w/out wasting my time.

Perhaps make it so dying in body form doesn't cost souls. So it becomes a very occasional "get-out-of-jail-free card".

...I...wha...wow. That would make the game into absurdly easy mode. I would want Demon Soul's 2 to be harder, not nerfed to hell and back like that. The only negative from dying is losing souls? Really? And then the only way to get souls back would be to exit the dungeon and start all over again anyway, despite being able to start "a room away" from where you died...or come back to an already cleared map?

And you're using the 3-2 as your example? The zone with easily one of the quickest shortcuts to the boss in the game?

Bloodstains and player messages are warnings to players who take their time and do things right, if you use them effectively, you won't die all that much. Take away bloodstains and you remove one of the more precise methods of judging what's ahead of you and finding out where the high risk areas are.

The harsh, unforgiving nature of the game was one of it's more enjoyable features. Taking those away just makes the game into just another dungeon crawler.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: RUMORED Demon's Souls 2?

The harsh, unforgiving nature of the game was one of it's more enjoyable features.

I agree wholeheartedly. I'm getting irritated with the dummy downed bs they are doing with games.

[Tickmeoff]

Re: RUMORED Demon's Souls 2?

And you're using the 3-2 as your example? The zone with easily one of the quickest shortcuts to the boss in the game?

Huh? There's a shortcut around going through the entire level and disabling both towers so you can walk up the huge stairs to the Maneaters?

I'd like to know about this shortcut. I hate 3-2 and I would very much enjoy just walking straight up to the boss instead of going through all of it.

First off, you respawn 1 room away, or at the beginning of the stage w/out mob respawns (if you want them back, use the key stone deals to zone in and back).

Second, remove bloodstains. That's right. Every death costs your stock of souls. You can jump back into the fray, but you only have one thing to be frustrated at instead of 42 (the number of opportunities for me to die on my way to the maneaters). In fact, it's actually a bit more anguishing, but w/out wasting my time.

I don't see any punishment for dying here. I lose all souls every time I die and respawn one room away? Awesome, I can just throw myself at any hard enemy to my heart's content and after dying once I wont lose a single thing when I die and always respawn 10 feet away from where I died. I wont even need to think or have any skill any more when I can just hurr durr berserk mode until I get lucky and it works. If I end up at the boss with no souls.. oh well. The boss will give me 5x what all the enemies in the stage gave me and if I die to the boss I wont have any souls to lose anyway.

Losing souls is the least concern as far as death in this game goes. There are way too many ways to easily amass a lot of souls even at the beginning of the game for the loss of them to be considered any more than a small nuisance.

[Neverslip]

Re: RUMORED Demon's Souls 2?

First off, you respawn 1 room away, or at the beginning of the stage w/out mob respawns (if you want them back, use the key stone deals to zone in and back).

Second, remove bloodstains. That's right. Every death costs your stock of souls. You can jump back into the fray, but you only have one thing to be frustrated at instead of 42 (the number of opportunities for me to die on my way to the maneaters). In fact, it's actually a bit more anguishing, but w/out wasting my time.

Perhaps make it so dying in body form doesn't cost souls. So it becomes a very occasional "get-out-of-jail-free card".

I'm sorry... NO!

The sequel for Demon's Souls should not be Demon's Pansies.

[Lmnop]

Re: RUMORED Demon's Souls 2?

You guys are funny. I was giving a few different ideas, if you didn't notice.

If at beginning of stage=true, mob respawn=false. But I don't actually like this one. I'd rather see mobs compartmentalized. If you die in a particular area, you go back one previous area which will be empty. For instance "all monsters on this staircase" will be empty. But the room that staircase leads to would be respawned in full, as would all monsters in the area previous. So you have one clear spot and you're close to where you died so you can attempt that group of baddies again.

It would be easy enough to make it so a 2nd death at the same spot restarts the stage entirely.

Why do I try? I'm not perfect and my complaints fall on deaf ears.

I'm currently in 2-2 (yes, bitching about this game made me want to play it again. Makes no sense). I've gone through a tunnel, I've gone down an elevator, I've gone through some mines, I've cleared out some bugbears, and now I'm lost in a maze of tunnels. I'm staring at this place below wondering if the drop will kill me. I really can't tell how far it is. And then I see my 16000 souls and I wonder "is this the time to experiment?"

There you have it. If I drop down to discover something, I'll probably die and have to do the whole damn stage again. This. Is. Not. Difficulty. And this makes me a pansy, does it?

And spare me the "you should've gone right and taken the super shortcut". That's not the direction I took and I don't know any better.

btw

...I...wha...wow. That would make the game into absurdly easy mode.

You define your difficulty by the amount of time lost per death. I define it by how much your character loses. Take away the last soul level if you really want to.

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You know what? I just realized this is the very definition of "retro". You guys like it because it's how things are not, despite the fact that it's how they used to be. Style has always worked like this (art, fashion), why not games? I suppose I should just get used to the slowly growing retro counterculture for the next 10 years until even the retro culture gamers want sensible game features like a jump button. And then 15 years later, there'll be a new set of retro gamers!


Btw, who's idea was it to add "I need help - please recommend this message!" to the list? Every argument about how players can help each other out is nullified by the fact that I stopped clicking messages because of that one option spammed.

[Neverslip]

Re: RUMORED Demon's Souls 2?

LOL.... sorry, I don't mean my replies as prickish as they come across when typed ... you're trying to get masochists to leave an abusive relationship. The only Stockholm's Syndrom greater than Demon's Souls I've ever seen generated is from FFxi.

Btw, who's idea was it to add "I need help - please recommend this message!" to the list? Every argument about how players can help each other out is nullified by the fact that I stopped clicking messages because of that one option spammed.

I totally agree about that particular message. I actually cannot think of a time that message has been useful to me... ever... maybe they (some have 300+ recommendations) are left over from when the game was young and people didn't know WTF. I don't mind the misleading ... it's the useless that confounds me.

[Tickmeoff]

Re: RUMORED Demon's Souls 2?

I'm staring at this place below wondering if the drop will kill me. I really can't tell how far it is. And then I see my 16000 souls and I wonder "is this the time to experiment?"

There you have it. If I drop down to discover something, I'll probably die and have to do the whole damn stage again. This. Is. Not. Difficulty. And this makes me a pansy, does it?

First of all..

Why did you enter the level with 9-10k souls? The monsters in 2-2 don't give very many souls. There is no way you accumulated 16,000 just from going from the entrance to the tunnels with the bug bears.


Second..

If a fall looks like it's going to kill you it probably will. If you can't see a feasible place to land a short distance away you probably aren't meant to jump there.

If you die, you repeat the level. You have to deal with slave dudes that swing pickaxes for pretty massive damage, a fat minister, the tunnel worms and the exploding bear bugs. Are you suggesting all of these enemies are so easy for you that there is no difficulty in doing all of that again?

If you died then the stage must be difficult enough to kill you. Navigating this stage is apparently not an easy task once you get to the maze-like tunnels. If it isn't easy to navigate.. it must be difficult to navigate, yes?

Is there something fake about the environment posing a difficulty?

[Lmnop]

Re: RUMORED Demon's Souls 2?

Yeah. I can take it slow, everything dies, and I don't get hurt. That's what happens with high magic, good ol' Soul Arrow, and mp regeneration. The only challenge is waiting for the minister to start firing so I can roll to the side and knock 40% off his health with a soul arrow. Hardly difficult. Redoing the stage is just more time.

I thought I needed to find something else, but I was right all along. So there wasn't any true difficulty to the maze, either.

How many examples have I given of this game's inconsistency? It wants to teach you to be cautious, but there's so many reasons not to. Dropping off that ledge (which didn't kill me -- it's where I was supposed to go afterall) seems just as silly as trying to approach the dragons in 1-1 expecting them to be the stage bosses. It's as silly as those outside edges in 3-1 you walk along to get loot when there are other ledges just as narrow that you can't walk on (I fall to my doom). No matter what, you're going to die - dare I say, unjustly? - and people on The Internet will say you're a noob for dissing a game that's so gloriously difficult if you complain about it.

16k souls comes from dying once fairly far in, redoing to that point and claiming your old souls. Going back to the start and spending them means doing the stage again. That's infinite-loop logic, so I gotta proceed some time.

Also, I had my first encounter with a scraping spear D-bag today.

[DakAttack]

Re: RUMORED Demon's Souls 2?

How many examples have I given of this game's inconsistency? It wants to teach you to be cautious, but there's so many reasons not to. Dropping off that ledge (which didn't kill me -- it's where I was supposed to go afterall) seems just as silly as trying to approach the dragons in 1-1 expecting them to be the stage bosses. It's as silly as those outside edges in 3-1 you walk along to get loot when there are other ledges just as narrow that you can't walk on (I fall to my doom). No matter what, you're going to die - dare I say, unjustly? - and people on The Internet will say you're a noob for dissing a game that's so gloriously difficult if you complain about it.

That's what's so fun. It's an adventure. I usually get frustrated when I think a game is cheating me, but with Demon's Souls I know to expect it. I know it's going to be trial and error with what could be a great discovery or an epic failure. It's why it's so fun.